Playing fast passages - right hand technique

[Clarky]

Quick question for the seasoned DBers - how do you play fast passages with your right hand? I am specifically thinking of a couple of parts I play in my my band:

1. Fast alternating octaves (16th notes)

2. Flamenco-style, galloping lines (16th notes again)

Try as i might I cannot do this any other way than electric bass style with fingers perpendicular to the board and playing with finger tips. I can sort of play the octave thing with first and second fingers at an angle but my timing is very imprecise and it feels massively awkward and unnatural. Any thoughts gentlemen and ladies?

[fatback]

As far as I know from tutorials etc, that's what you're supposed to do. Ed Friedland's jazz video has a 'locomotive' arm technique for fast playing with the fingers vertical, but I think for the fastest parts he plays guitar style too.

[Clarky]

OK thanks, mate! I've watched loads of Youtube vids of great players and they seem to effortlessly play fast passages with the stock side-of-fingers-at-45-degrees-to-strings technique but I have'nt really seen anyone play flamenco-esque passages. Electric bass-style works for me and - if the notes are staccato and fast - then I see no reason to worry about getting the 'meat' of the finger to work on the strings. Thing is, I look back at video of myself and it looks wrong!

[Bilbo]

Jimmy Garrison did a lot of this. Have a look for some videos of him on youtube.

[Legion]

My old jazz DB teacher used to have me practicing using the first 3 fingers to pluck (in the normal DB way) in combinations varying across the strings, as well as raking to line yourself up for efficient use of those 3 fingers. Difficult thing and I guess you need to get some nice exercises to practice to work on the dexterity required?

[bassace]

I like to stay fingers-down as much as poss, but for a particularly fast piece nothing wrong with going more perpendicular. Also raking helps in places plus two left hand stops per one rh pizz (surely there's a technical term for that). Mix your shots to the best advantage and don't over-analyze.

[scojack]

Take a look at NHOP with Oscar Peterson too......

[zero9]

It can be done using 'proper' DB pizzicato technique (using side of the fingers pointing down), although it requires stamina and lots of practice (it's never easy ).

Check out some Avishai Cohen.

[Clarky]

Well, after a mega Youtube session I have found the following players who play - if not with fingers vertically - certainly closer to electric bass style than 'traditional/proper' DB style when soloing fast: NHOP (as mentioned above), Stanley Clarke, John Patitucci, Reynaud Garcia Fons and Eddie Gomez (example of Eddie Gomez soloing below). I guess that learning proper DB technique is a marathon, not a sprint, and what works best for me now (which is certainly not 'proper') may evolve over time, with practice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkH7wgfuzyo&feature=related

[PTB]

Like you Clarky, I move to a more perpendicular position for quick passages. However, when doing so, I prefer to play nearer the bridge than you do as I find the strings too floppy up over the fingerboard which means I can't get the notes to speak quickly. It sounds fine to me and that's what matters at the end of the day.

[marvin spangles]

Recently been trying to play with the fingers pointing down but
I seem to creep into the habit of perpendicular fingers as the gig progresses and certainly for long multi chorus fast walking passages and almost all solos. Will keep practicing but not going to beat myself up about it. No one in the bandstand gives a monkey's one way or the other.

[Bilbo]

I find I am constantly changing the exact position of the r/h all of the time. I do go to 'electric bass' r/h technique on really fast passages but stick with more correct pizz technique until the 'tipping point'. As it only relates to a tiny part of my playing (I believe that most great jazz is not played at fast tempos), I don't obsess over it.