Advice on how to set up a bass tuned down to E flat

[peteb]

All the bands I have been in have tuned to concert pitch (apart from a few deps) but, as certain singers are getting older, it looks like I need to start to start detuning a half-step to E flat for one of my projects!

I have always struggled to get a tuned down bass to feel right in the past, so I wonder if anyone has any tips?? All my basses are strung with 45 to 105s, have a low action and very little relief on the neck. I like plenty of tension in the strings (I know that some say that it isn’t really tension, but you know what I mean – perhaps tautness is a better word). Some people might say that tuning down a half step shouldn’t make a significant difference, but it does!

I have just re-strung my Streamer Stage 1 with DR lo-riders (on the basis that they are supposed to be quite stiff) but does anyone have any tips about how to set the bass up, neck relief, action, other makes of strings to try, etc to try and keep the feel of the bass as close as possible to what I’m used to??

[Dingus]

If you are already using DRs maybe some of these would help:

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/DR-Strings-Announces-New-Drop-Down-Tuning-String-Sets/4814

I know a lot of bands in the late 60s/early 70s such as Black Sabbath used to tune down a half step , and from distant memory I think Stevie Ray Vaughan did too, so its more common than you might think. I would think that just tuning down a half step would be easily compensated for by slightly heavier gauge strings , but any lower than that might neccessitate a bit of truss rod adjustment and even a new nut ( maybe) . As for the neck relief and action, see how the bass performs without changing anything and then evaluate any changes that need making from there. If you aren't getting too much buzz or rattle then all good , but if you do find certain notes choking a bit then if they are at the first few frets and/or in the middle section of the fretboard you migh want to loosen the truss rod a little , otherwise raise the action a bit . You will probably need to experiment to find a happy medium.

[peteb]

SRV, Hendrix, early Van Halen, G'n'R, later Whitesnake etc, etc to name just a few all tune down - it's pretty much the norm in rock (& blues) music these days but I've just managed to avoid it!

Edited October 8, 2012 by peteb

[Lozz196]

Yes, higher gauge strings will be good, as being higher tension, tuned down they should then feel like regs.

And your sound will be much meatier too - which is nice.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Lozz196

[peteb]

As i'm already using 45-105s I would prefer not to use any heavier strings if possible. Ideally I would like strings with higher 'tension' to compensate for them being tuned down.

Just wondered if there are any other tricks that I need to be aware of??

[Dingus]

If you are looking for an alternative "tight" -feeling string then Picato stainless steel roundwounds are pretty taught ( and pretty cheap ), or maybe a balanced tension set from another manufacturer with a 106 E string might counteract the worst of the floppiness problem without feeling like being much heavier gauge.

[Jools4001]

My band plays most of our gig in standard tuning, but the first 6 or 7 songs in the second set are from bands that tuned down to Eb when they did the originals Guns and Roses, Thin Lizzy etc... for some reason those songs don't have the same vibe when we played them in standard tuning.

It's easier to have a spare bass set up for drop tuning than dick around tuning between numbers (and having to put up with rubber band strings for the drop stuff). So, my Ric does most of the gig tuned to standard wearing 45-105 Elites and I have an Epi T-Bird Pro IV that I use for the drop tuned stuff and it wears 50-110 Elites. The difference in string tension between the two basses is not enough to worry about.

I used to use lighter guages, but I've found I prefer heavier strings these days. I know you think that 50-110's might be over the top but my bass handled them with no need to widen the nut slots and just a tweak on the truss rod, so it shouldn't take any work to speak of and it's only going to cost you £15 or so to find out if you like them

[Turk]

I did a few stints with a band who needed CGCF. Now that was a 'trouser flapping' experience. A set of 50-110 were fine on a Warwick Streamer. They were like steel girders when tuned to EADG.

[mep]

Our band detunes to Eb. TBH I have had no real problem doing this with any of my bases. I use 45-105 strings and make sure that when I 'm detuned my bass is set up for that, but for me there is not much in it.

a few song have drop D as well! The E String seems to hold up fine, although it sometimes it wants to slide off the top of the neck if I'm not too careful.

[Paul S]

[quote name='mep' timestamp='1349732787' post='1829935']
Our band detunes to Eb. TBH I have had no real problem doing this with any of my bases. I use 45-105 strings and make sure that when I 'm detuned my bass is set up for that, but for me there is not much in it.

a few song have drop D as well! The E String seems to hold up fine, although it sometimes it wants to slide off the top of the neck if I'm not too careful.
[/quote]

^^this for me, too. One band drops half a tone for everything and, like mep above, we play a 'drop D' for a couple of numbers. My other band uses standard tuning. I keep the same strings and set up on all my basses for both bands, swapping basses according to whim, and have never found it an issue.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Paul S

[Geek99]

My Squier VM p didnt need anything at all changed, not even the string gauge, they are just cheapie Hartke 45-105s

[Conan]

It sounds like a lot of the problem might be "in your head" - especially if you say you have avoided tuning down for all this time! I suspect you will get used to it, but I can't think of any "tricks" that will change the string tension or feel (compliance, I believe it is called!).

I suppose you could try flatwound strings - as they tend to have a higher percieved tension for similar gauges...

[Ghost_Bass]

It's just half step back, i say keep the same strings. You'll notice the slightest diference on the first couple of times you use the bass after detuning but you'll grow acostumed to it. IMHO i don't think there will be much difference in sound to justify raising the caliber of the strings on such a small detune. It will all come down to your preference, try it and see for yourself if you can live with the diference, don't forget to do a full setup if needed.

[peteb]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1349795413' post='1830638']
It's just half step back, i say keep the same strings. You'll notice the slightest diference on the first couple of times you use the bass after detuning but you'll grow acostumed to it. IMHO i don't think there will be much difference in sound to justify raising the caliber of the strings on such a small detune. It will all come down to your preference, try it and see for yourself if you can live with the diference, don't forget to do a full setup if needed.
[/quote]
The trouble is if you have a bass with a very low action then it does make a big difference - as I found out when I did a last minute dep with a band who tune down!

There are loads of top bands with quality bass players who play in E flat and I doubt that they put up with floppy strings or a high action, so presumably there must be a way of setting up a bass properly when it's tuned down!

Edited October 9, 2012 by peteb

[brensabre79]

Actually a lot of very well respected players use quite a high action. SRV was mentioned above, he used very thick strings and a very high action, thats how he got that fat sound. Same goes for a lot of big players, both bass and guitar - you'd be surprised how awful some of the instruments they play can be. If you have light strings/low action you'd better be a light player and the strings will still tend to choke a little if you give it some beans.

I'd try the bootzillas or lo-riders 50-110, there is not much difference in thickness but there's just a little more tension in the feel for you. And I would raise the action a tad - you will get used to it, and your bass will sing so much louder. I expect the shock of being dropped in at the deep end has made this seem worse than it is, and (if you have a critically low action) harder than it should be.

If you've ever played a 5 string you'll know that you can't twang the low B all that hard before it bangs against the fingerboard and chokes out - its similar with drop tuning, there are some measures you can take with adjustments but mostly its about getting used to the feel.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1349799312' post='1830705']
The trouble is if you have a bass with a very low action then it does make a big difference - as I found out when I did a last minute dep with a band who tune down!

There are loads of top bands with quality bass players who play in E flat and I doubt that they put up with floppy strings or a high action, so presumably there must be a way of setting up a bass properly when it's tuned down!
[/quote]

Nope! I used to play with 0.040//0.060//0.080//0.100//0.120 and always had the lowest action on earth (i'm a light player), never had any buzz or floppy strings. What you need to do is to adjust you playing technique to the loose strings in order not to get fret buzz and if needed raise the saddles a mm or so or adjust the truss rod (don't think this will be needed). It's not a little raise in the action that gonna make you play worse. You just need to try it!

Did it never happened to you setting up you gear in the pub and when you came back from dinner to have the entire bass half step above or down of tune? Did it felt diferent when you picked it up before kicking in the tuner?