Gig Offer Sounds Dodgy

[Hobbayne]

Our guitarist has been trying to find our new rock covers band some work and got this email from a promoter in Sutton.
I think it sounds dodgy, what do you think?
We are are new band who have yet to play live and have yet to attract a following.
[quote][color=#454545][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Hi Rob[/size][/font][/color][indent]
[indent]What's the name of the band?]What do you normally charge for appearing?[/indent][indent]From what area are you from?(We generally rely on bands bringing support with them) Would you do a gig even though there may be a chance of not being paid due to poor attendance? If the answer to the last question is yes,do you fancy a gig on Thursday 18/10 at The Paddock(I'm thinking of doing a rock covers night,for a change) It may be a busy night or it may not,if it's a success I will hold more.Regards
[color=#454545][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Phil[/size][/font][/color][/quote]

Edited October 9, 2012 by Hobbayne

[gapiro]

Sounds like he hasn't researched your band at all, and hasn't got a clue that you are a covers band. IMHO YMMV etc.

[zero9]

Difficult to say from that. Sounds to me like the 'promoter' wants you to play for free.

[AntLockyer]

So he's asking you to take on the risk of the night not being a success. Avoid.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

Sounds to me like he hasn't got a clue how this new night will turn out, isn't prepared to promote it adequately, and expects your band to be the fall guys. I wouldn't do it unless we agreed a fee beforehand.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1349782321' post='1830361']
....I think it sounds dodgy....
[/quote]

Why?

To me it just sounds like a guy that wants you to play for free.

At least he's being up front about it. Most promoters aren't.

Edited October 9, 2012 by chris_b

[throwoff]

Promoters promote.
Musicians provide music.

This whole 'the band should bring a crowd' sh**e has been going on for years and I am afraid some people are so desperate to play they fall for it time and time again.

Yes the band should put the gig up on their facebook or what have you and maybe send out an email or two if they have a mailing list but thats it really, the clue is in the name 'promoter'

Most of them seem to think putting a band and venue together is job done.

I have a new originals project coming together and it is hardly saturday night at the dog and duck material but I have made it clear from the start I will NOT play for free, for a friend or venue we know personally I will do the first one for expenses and no fee to get to know the place but never for free.

I work a hard at a job I thankfully enjoy and play music in my spare time, I will not be out of pocket to do so, I would rather not gig.

Edited October 9, 2012 by throwoff

[Big_Stu]

First off I'd be checking myself what he usually has instead of "rock covers nights for a change". Depending on the answer to that is there any reasonable expectation of there being a regular crowd that would turn up out of interest?
The rest of it looks like a standard email that they'd send out to every band, just changing the name at the top, hoping to get a few freebies in.
You could turn it around and ask what the average fee is that they pay to bands who aren't doing "rock covers nights".

[Evil Undead]

Nah, not dodgy but he's basically telling you that you're unlikely to get paid. Avoid.

[charic]

I would still do the gig if...

He could guarantee another slot at a paid gig further down the line in writing.

[throwoff]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1349783690' post='1830390']
I would still do the gig if...

He could guarantee another slot at a paid gig further down the line in writing.
[/quote]

Problem is with the vast majority of these weekend promoters is that such a promise is worth about as much in writing as it would be whispered into the ear of a fleeting unicorn.

[charic]

If in writing with a value you could always take it to small claims if needs be

[JTUK]

Sounds like he is has sent out a standard letter to all the enquires he may get.

He may not have done much research but you can use this as a lesson in what you can ask for and expect out of gigs...
If you are prepared to work free and it isn't too far, then what have you got to lose..? it could give you a sense of
reference..

[thebrig]

There seems to be a strong link with this ongoing thread:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/182290-play-for-free/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/182290-play-for-free/[/url]

[JTUK]

Maybe... but my post was in context with the OP here... so wasn't about to bring up the other topic.
I don't always like the sound of my own voice

[Musky]

[quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1349785951' post='1830465']
Problem is with the vast majority of these weekend promoters is that such a promise is worth about as much in writing as it would be whispered into the ear of a fleeting unicorn.
[/quote]
Weekend promoter seems about right. Enthusiastic amateur with little experience.

http://www.pdhpromotionevents.com/about-us/

[mushers]

by the looks of it the chances of getting paid are slim to none might be worth going for shits and giggles meet the landlords or owner etc

[Lozz196]

I wonder if said promoter also walks home with nothing, if the venue has poor attendance?

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1349785951' post='1830465']
Problem is with the vast majority of these weekend promoters is that such a promise is[u][b] worth about as much in writing as it would be whispered into the ear of a fleeting unicorn.[/b][/u]
[/quote]

I am going to steal this quote and use it at the sales meeting tomorrow.
Don't know in what context but I am going to get it in there some how!

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1349809843' post='1830905']
Weekend promoter seems about right. Enthusiastic amateur with little experience.

[url="http://www.pdhpromotionevents.com/about-us/"]http://www.pdhpromot...s.com/about-us/[/url]
[/quote]

Anyone using "of" instead of "have", especially on a professional site should be [i]shot and strangled[/i].

[SteveK]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1349782321' post='1830361']
Our guitarist has been trying to find our new rock covers band some work and got this email from a promoter in Sutton.
I think it sounds dodgy, what do you think?
We are are new band who have yet to play live and have yet to attract a following.
[/quote]

Considering that you are a "[i]new band who have yet to play live and have yet to attract a following[/i]" I think the email is quite reasonable.


[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1349782607' post='1830363']
Sounds like he hasn't researched your band at all, and hasn't got a clue that you are a covers band. IMHO YMMV etc.
[/quote]
The OP states that they are a "[i]new band who have yet to play live and have yet to attract a following[/i]".
How would he go about researching such a band? I would have thought that it was up to the guitarist (assuming he approached the promoter) to give the promoter as much info as possible in the first communication.

I think that as a first gig, it would be unreasonable to expect much more than a beer and a sandwich as payment. The gig would more likely benefit you than the promoter.
If he offers you a gig I would bite his hand off.

[pietruszka]

There's a "promoter" in the north east who does this a lot, though to be fair he never usually asks this kind of stuff. His name is phil to.
My band has vowed never to take another gig from him again.



Dan

Edited October 9, 2012 by pietruszka

[4 Strings]

Its impossible for a promoter to drum up an audience for a band that no-one as ever heard of and is new.

Venues need to make money on every evening, if you're not going to bring a load of people with you why would they put you on?

If the venue gets pretty busy regardless who turns up I think you should expect £50 as a new band. If it relies on the band to bring the audience you just need to agree how many people are required before you start getting some of the action. Then make that your target for your 'launch'. If you're not going to get that number, just decide if you want to play or not.

If you want to get out there and play and start building your following I believe taking the advice of a lot of the posts in this thread would count against you.

[pietruszka]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1349854295' post='1831228']
Its impossible for a promoter to drum up an audience for a band that no-one as ever heard of and is new.

Venues need to make money on every evening, if you're not going to bring a load of people with you why would they put you on?

If the venue gets pretty busy regardless who turns up I think you should expect £50 as a new band. If it relies on the band to bring the audience you just need to agree how many people are required before you start getting some of the action. Then make that your target for your 'launch'. If you're not going to get that number, just decide if you want to play or not.

If you want to get out there and play and start building your following I believe taking the advice of a lot of the posts in this thread would count against you.
[/quote]
An extremely good point, however a promoter my band has played for couldn't even get a crowd at Europes largest travelling fair. Really, full car parks everywhere and there was about 10 people at the stage. Each gig we've done for him, no one has been there. And we don't even get £5 of expenses.


Dan

[Happy Jack]

Think of it as an "as live" rehearsal where you don't have to pay for the rehearsal room.

If you're not bringing your own crowd, and you're a new band so no one has heard of you, what's the logic in a landlord promising to pay you £200 even if there's no one in the venue?

Sounds to me like the promoter is being more open than most about how the deal is going to work. I wouldn't have a problem with that.