Refinishing a jazz neck with low friction: what to use?

[Ashwood1985]

Hi Guys,

Disclaimer: I am as enthusiastic as I am inexperienced with regards to woodwork so please forgive any ignorance!

I'm gonna sand down the back of my jazz neck on my first bass as it's original gloss finish is worn in places and I dont want the tackiness that comes with the gloss anyway. I completely re-sanded my thumb after I picked it up a few months ago and simply gave it a coat of bees wax, however that was all ovankol. I assume that the jazz neck being a light coloured wood (Ash or similar) it would need more protection to keep the dirt out. As mentioned I don't want any tackiness you get with gloss etc. So I would like it as friction free as possible. So here's the crux of the matter: Satin Sealer? Just Oil? Something Else?

It's a 92 Jap Silver Series Squier so I am not keen to just whack something on and see how it goes, potentially discover the finish is no good and have to re-sand; removing more wood unnecessarily, hence my enquiry with you fellas.

Thanks in advance!

Ash

[BassBod]

First thing is to remove the existing hard finish - can be done with steel wool or light grade sand papers..but I'd go for steel/plastic wool as you won't really be touching the wood. You may find that just taking the gloss off the existing finish is good enough. It will go shiny again in a few months, but its easy to do.

If you want to oil it after taking off the finish, then Liberon Tung oil is good - follow the instructions, as its very easy. Don't over do it (two or three diluted coats should be enough) and clean/ re-coat every years or so. Don't use anything waxy (except the Warwick stuff) its too thick and sticky.

[Ashwood1985]

Thanks for the hints mate.

What about bri wax?? It was suggested to me before by Martin at the gallery.

[BassBod]

I've never used it, but most beeswax furniture products will leave the back of the neck feeling sticky, the only one I know that doesn't is the Warwick finishing wax (it seems to be a thinner product that doesn't build up so quickly). Worth looking on the Music Man forum, as they've used oiled maple necks for years - Birchwood Casey gun stock oil/wax. I'm not keen on it because of all the cautions on the label, and it isn't that easy to find over here. I got some from Thomman a few years ago, and its good stuff, but it seems very "petrochemical" in its make up.

Try just cutting back the gloss first and see what it feels like?

[Pete1967]

[quote name='BassBod' timestamp='1349992185' post='1833424']
Worth looking on the Music Man forum, as they've used oiled maple necks for years - Birchwood Casey gun stock oil/wax.

Try just cutting back the gloss first and see what it feels like?
[/quote]

I'd agree... try cutting back first and see what you get. Go easy with the abrasive paper if you use it and start at something like 320 so you're flatting rather than sanding off... depends how badly worn the existing finish is as to how much sanding you'll need to do I suppose. Use a radius block if you have one.
Tru-Oil is easy to apply and can give natural feeling results if you dont build up too many layers or almost a gloss finish if you do... but be patient!

My personal favourite on a maple neck is a sprayed on satin polyurethane... It's hard wearing and has a nice smooth finish once fully cured, but applying it at home is not for the faint of heart! I'm doing one at the moment and it's buttock clenching stuff each time a coat goes on.

P

[4 Strings]

How'd you get on?

For what its worth, I have a Stingray with the unfinished neck, I use lemon-oil on the fingerboard and the gunstock wax on the back. Just need the tiniest smear on a paper towel for the wax for the whole neck. It finishes super-smooth and slippy. I had noticed the cautions but chose not to eat any. It's got beeswax but also silicon and other less natural ingredients but it does the job. I think MM recommend it as it claims to be waterproof and so the surface should survive a good number of sweaty gigs without rubbing off. Got mine from the 'bay.

In fact so slippy is the finish that I found I was having to press my thumb quite hard, then started to wonder if the lacquered finish provided a better anchoring for the thumb. However, after a day or it settles and its perfect. I cleaned and oiled when I got the bass (it was pretty dirty and dry) and then again after 6 months or so when I changed the strings. Probably 6 monthly intervals is ok, no more though.

For me its an interesting feature of the bass, but I'm not unhappy with lacquer so, take or leave really. It does, however, give an excuse for an occasional show of affection and nice oil and rub - the wife is genuinely not happy!

Edited October 15, 2012 by 4 Strings

[BassPimp66]

After the sanding is done, try boiled linseed oil in small quantity.

[Ashwood1985]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1350284972' post='1836668']
It does, however, give an excuse for an occasional show of affection and nice oil and rub - the wife is genuinely not happy!
[/quote]

LOL

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys. I've been a little pre-occupied with work and mixing some album tracks between shifts so I only got as far as taking the neck off the body and leaving the bass in two on the sofa for the last week!

When I manage to get the time to strip it back I'll make my mind up. linseed oil and gunstock wax sound like good hassle free solutions that should deliver the result I'm after.

I'll be sure to update with any progress!

Thanks again for all the contributions. They're appreciated

[Si600]

Don't forget to cut the slots in the nut to within a mm of the fingerboard, oil the pots and liberally coat the thing in beeswax

Having just seen the inexperienced bit please, please, please don't do any of the above! I'm making fun of a certain "gluthier"...

[mcnach]

[quote name='Ashwood1985' timestamp='1350434342' post='1838957']
LOL

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys. I've been a little pre-occupied with work and mixing some album tracks between shifts so I only got as far as taking the neck off the body and leaving the bass in two on the sofa for the last week!

When I manage to get the time to strip it back I'll make my mind up. linseed oil and gunstock wax sound like good hassle free solutions that should deliver the result I'm after.

I'll be sure to update with any progress!

Thanks again for all the contributions. They're appreciated
[/quote]

doing the same at the moment on the neck of my Retrovibe Vantage. In my case I'm using fine steel wool and Casey's TruOil. I also have some Casey's gunstock wax. I applied the oil last night, couple of coats. Looking already pretty nice, and simple.

[iiipopes]

I prefer tung oil. It takes multiple coats. It is sticky to start. You have to give a full day between each coat. But after the multiple coats and buffing between each one, and letting it cure for a couple of weeks afterwards, it is smooth and easy, and if you're into "vintage," it looks "vintage" from the start.

[Ashwood1985]

Plenty of options and great suggestions fellas!

Neck's now steel wooled and sanded with 800 and 1000 grade and I'll finish off with some 0000 steel wool to finish smoothing it off before poppig to my local hardware store after the weekend (I'm away on a mixing weekend retreat in wales!) to grab summin for it

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Ashwood1985' timestamp='1349954408' post='1832600']
I'm gonna sand down the back of my jazz neck on my first bass as it's original gloss finish is worn in places and I dont want the tackiness that comes with the gloss anyway.
[/quote]

Out of interest is there any scientific reason for why gloss necks are supposed to be sticky?

I have many guitars and basses with painted gloss finished necks and none of them exhibit this.

I suspect it's down to two things:
1. There are some cheaper gloss finishes that feel sticky.
2. It's completely psychological.

FWIW the stickiest necks I ever encountered were on Warwicks were there's not even the slightest trace of a gloss finish.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Ashwood1985' timestamp='1349991403' post='1833401']
Thanks for the hints mate.

What about bri wax?? It was suggested to me before by Martin at the gallery.
[/quote]

I use BriWax on my Warwick necks, light sand, wax, leave to soak and harden, polish off.

As for your Fender neck, I have used 800 grade wet and dry to take the gloss off. It's easy to restore the gloss later if you want to. Do NOT sand down to the bare wood. I hear Brillo pads work too but never bothered trying.

[4 Strings]

I don't think they are seen to be 'sticky' as such, just has a higher friction than a sanded and oiled neck.

Just drag your thumb across the glossy body and then down the oiled neck to feel the difference. Not much!

Frankly, as I've mentioned, I find the freshly oiled neck on my MM to be very slippy such that I have to 'pinch' the neck harder between my thumb and fingers and it actually makes my thumb ache after a while. I quite like the anchoring of my thumb on a glossy neck better than it being so slippy.

The main advantage, as far as I can see, is that is gives an opportunity for you to apply some tlc on your bass every now and then, which can be a pleasure!

When I got my bass the previous user hadn't really looked after the neck surface and so it wasn't sealed and became ingrained with dirt. I have the back of it clean but I think removal of the frets and sanding will be required on the front. Probably won't bother with that. If it was lacquered some soapy water would have done!

[Musky]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1350554248' post='1840358']
As for your Fender neck, I have used 800 grade wet and dry to take the gloss off. It's easy to restore the gloss later if you want to. Do NOT sand down to the bare wood. I hear Brillo pads work too but never bothered trying.
[/quote]
+1

[Ashwood1985]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1350554248' post='1840358']
Do NOT sand down to the bare wood.
[/quote]

in faith of the theory that there's no such thing as a silly question: why?

[xilddx]

[quote name='Ashwood1985' timestamp='1350637944' post='1841478']
in faith of the theory that there's no such thing as a silly question: why?
[/quote]
Instrument wood needs protecting from moisture loss (and absorbtion), especially necks as they can become unstable and move around, depending on humidity and temperature. If you do sand to the bare wood you will need to protect it with something, like oil, wax, lacquer, etc.

[4 Strings]

So sanding to the bare wood is fine, as long as its sealed afterwards. Refinishing is the subject isn't it? If the old finish is not sanded off it won't be a satisfactory job, surely?

Going off the subject a bit, I must admit this movement issue is a bit of a mystery to me, my Jaydee once suffered movement when it was used in a basement over a week for recording. Had to slacken the rod a touch to make it playable again and after a couple of weeks at home was retightened to bring it back. And yet, the sealing and protection to the unlacquered MM necks must be minimal (just a rub of a tiny amount of gunstock wax and mine had been rather left to its own devices when I got it) but they seem to be stable.

I wonder if temperature has more effect than moisture (not extremes here). The truss rod will expand/contract with changing temeprature, I feel, more than the wood move with slight moisture content in the air.

[Ashwood1985]

hi again guys,

First of all, thanks for all your useful comments!!!

So I finally got around to finishing off the sanding and putting a layer of oil on. I picked up some raw linseed oil from a local hardware store.

I did one coat then buffed it and have now put the bass back together. My initial impression after it has settled down is that it is very natural in feel, perhaps a little too much. I'm thinking a second coat? Or will this not change much in your experiences?

Ash

[redstriper]

I have a '63 Fender Jazz bass that most of the neck lacquer has worn off - does this mean the neck is unstable and should be refinished?

I also have a '90s silver series Squier Jazz bass that has no lacquer left on the neck because the previous owner stripped it off by over cleaning it - is this neck also unstable?

What about a new relic or road worn instrument that has most of the neck lacquer missing?

[4 Strings]

They will be unstable if they keep needing adjustment not because of how much lacquer has been removed.

[redstriper]

Thanks, there seem to be various opinions on the need for lacquer, as keen be seen in this other thread:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=viewNewContent&search_app=forums"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=viewNewContent&search_app=forums[/url]

[4 Strings]

My Musicman is typical of its period and has no lacquer on the fingerboard nor neck. It relies on occasional oiling/waxing by the owner. I don't think the last owner did any. The result wasn't an unstable neck but a dirty surface.

[Ashwood1985]

Put some fresh sunbeams on it and it's playing MUCH better with the old finish off

Smooth natural feel that I was looking for. I may whack on a second coat to see if that seals up the wood a little more as it still feels very virgin and I don't want it to get mashed as its a great neck!