Genz Benz Streamliner 900 cab options

[countjodius]

Hi all,

I'm looking to upgrade my rig and really like the look of the STM 900. As this is my first foray in to the world of non-combo amps, I'm keen to get some opinions on what cab to match with it, as the choice is a bit overwhelming! My main criteria are that it's light (under 25kg), punches above 400w, and I've always been keen on 2x10s (although I'd be open to other configs). So far I've short listed these cabs:[list]
[*]Ampeg PN-210HLF - I've always been a fan of the Ampeg tone, but not the weight/size, so very interested by this!
[*]Barefaced (possibly Super 12) - I've been reading rave reviews of these cabs, and they look to be super light. Wouldn't rule out the Midget also.
[*]EBS Neo 210 - Specs look great, and I've enjoyed the few EBS rigs I've come across. The price is steep though!
[*]Vanderkley 210MNT - Just came across this just now and it looks interesting, although have not read too much on them.
[*]Genz Benz NEOX X2 and STL2-210T
[/list]
There are also the MarkBass and TC 2x10s.

Tonally, I'd like something that has good punchy mids (I do a lot of bridge pup funk), but also has the versatility for deep gooey P-bass Soul & melodic/harmonic playing. I personally don't like the super modern cleanness of the likes of MarkBass amps, so am looking for something with a good amount of growl, but not woolly like some amps can be. Hope that makes sense!

Hopefully that's specific enough criteria (and not exhaustive)! As there's no chance to try out even the Genz north of the border, I don't have the option of testing out different cabs, so any thoughts greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

[WalMan]

Well I will give a thumbs up to the BF Super12T as that is what I use with the Streamliner 6.0 and it is lurverly

My warning would be based on what sort / size of gigs do you do as the STM6 & BF S12T are more than adequate for the classic rock gigs I do and I do wonder how people who use the 9.0 ever manage to gig that more powerful amp. I cannot imagine being able to do so with any of the bands I work with. Anything larger than standard club gigs and it's through the PA anyway

[countjodius]

Thanks for the recomendation WalMan, that's good to know! I did wonder if I'd need the power of the 900, but it I figured it's only and extra £100 for a lot more head room!

Edited October 15, 2012 by countjodius

[alexclaber]

[quote name='countjodius' timestamp='1350309576' post='1837084']...I figured it's only and extra £100 for a lot more head room![/quote]

Sensible thinking!

[hamfist]

[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1350309300' post='1837079']
..... I do wonder how people who use the 9.0 ever manage to gig that more powerful amp. I cannot imagine being able to do so with any of the bands I work with.
[/quote]

A simple manouvre with the master volume knob usually does the trick.

Addressing the OP's question, I would suggest adding the GK Neo 212, which is a cracking fit with the streamliner amps, to the list.

Whatever cab you get, make sure it ...

a) has enough top end, as if you like to slap, the STreamliner is not the toppiest of amps.

has enough mids as the streamliner is inherently a touch mid shy IMO.

Despite what I'm saying I love the amp, and it is definately the best amp for my tastes I have ever used. THe clean tone is simply gorgeously complex and full. Add some dirt and your away !!

[WalMan]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1350321007' post='1837278']
A simple manouvre with the master volume knob usually does the trick.
[/quote] Fine, assuming you are not a hairsbreadth from off already

[PTB]

I use my SL900 with an old MarkBass 3x10 from the days before they had yellow cones. I think it sounds great and it's light enough for me to carry.
I've also tried it with some Vanderkley cabs at bass direct when I bought it & that was very impressive but expensive.
We on BC can share our experiences but you really need to hear the rig for yourself. I'm on the mobile so I can't tell exactly where you are but you need to find somewhere to try some things out. Are you near enough to Carlisle and the Overwater shop? Are there any Scottish BCers who can let you hear their rigs?

[Muzz]

I use my 900 with a Schroeder 1515L, 39lbs of 2x15 loveliness, and it's a good match. The Schroeders are low-mid biased, which is a nice match.

[skychaserhigh]

The streamliner and Vanderkley combination is awesome.Those cabs are fantastic and guaranteed to put a smile on your face !

[countjodius]

Thanks for the opinions guys, like there are even more options than I first thought!

[quote name='PTB' timestamp='1350323475' post='1837326']
I use my SL900 with an old MarkBass 3x10 from the days before they had yellow cones. I think it sounds great and it's light enough for me to carry.
I've also tried it with some Vanderkley cabs at bass direct when I bought it & that was very impressive but expensive.
We on BC can share our experiences but you really need to hear the rig for yourself. I'm on the mobile so I can't tell exactly where you are but you need to find somewhere to try some things out. Are you near enough to Carlisle and the Overwater shop? Are there any Scottish BCers who can let you hear their rigs?
[/quote]

I'm about two hours North of Carlisle, so Overwater could be a good option. Do they have a large range of amps/cabs in store? For some reason I always assumed that the shop was only an outlet for their basses/products! Great idea in finding a Scottish member who might be able to give me a preview!

Hamfist- the GK looks quite good! I've only tried a GK 2x10 combo, and although the sound was quite punchy, it had this high "zing" that I couldn't get rid of- is this present in the Neo 212?

[alexclaber]

I'll just add that the Super Twelve T isn't really comparable to those other cabs, it can play much much louder - you need a pair of anyone of those cabs to compete. A Midget T will have similar or greater max SPL to the others when paired with the 900.

[countjodius]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1350473446' post='1839261']
I'll just add that the Super Twelve T isn't really comparable to those other cabs, it can play much much louder - you need a pair of anyone of those cabs to compete. A Midget T will have similar or greater max SPL to the others when paired with the 900.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info Alex, good to hear from the Barefaced man himself! I wonder in that case if the Super Twelve may be too loud, so therefore to go with the Midget? Or the Streamliner 600 with Super Twelve? Arrghh too many variables haha

[alexclaber]

[quote name='countjodius' timestamp='1350509020' post='1839988']Thanks for the info Alex, good to hear from the Barefaced man himself! I wonder in that case if the Super Twelve may be too loud, so therefore to go with the Midget? Or the Streamliner 600 with Super Twelve? Arrghh too many variables haha[/quote]

No such thing as too loud, you can always turn down! (And if the master volume is proving too sensitive don't forget there's the preamp gain (sometimes two of them), your instrument's volume knob, and your fingers). Send me an email - [email protected] and we'll work out if we have something that'll suit you optimally. As you said, lots of variables to consider so consider them we must!

[hamfist]

[quote name='countjodius' timestamp='1350461606' post='1839056']
Hamfist- the GK looks quite good! I've only tried a GK 2x10 combo, and although the sound was quite punchy, it had this high "zing" that I couldn't get rid of- is this present in the Neo 212?
[/quote]

No issues with annoying high frequencies at all with the GK neo 212. It has a good quality horn, as opposed to the cheapie piezo tweeter that was probably on the 2x10 combo you tried.
The neo 212 also has the usual rear tweeter control dial to fine tune your sound, which I find to be very flexible.

[chris_b]

What combo are you using at the moment?

I like a ton of bass but the mids and low mids is the area where you need to concentrate for punch, powerful notes and cutting through the mix.

The Shuttle 9.2 seems to be a much more balanced amp in this respect.

Then if you want a more rounded sound I'd also look at 12's rather than 10's.

Edited October 18, 2012 by chris_b

[wateroftyne]

I'd recommend a cab with a tight / shelved bottom end. The STL is BIG down low.

[countjodius]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1350558287' post='1840426']
No issues with annoying high frequencies at all with the GK neo 212. It has a good quality horn, as opposed to the cheapie piezo tweeter that was probably on the 2x10 combo you tried.
The neo 212 also has the usual rear tweeter control dial to fine tune your sound, which I find to be very flexible.
[/quote]

Cool thanks for the info Hamfist


[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1350559497' post='1840444']
What combo are you using at the moment?

I like a ton of bass but the mids and low mids is the area where you need to concentrate for punch, powerful notes and cutting through the mix.

The Shuttle 9.2 seems to be a much more balanced amp in this respect.

Then if you want a more rounded sound I'd also look at 12's rather than 10's.
[/quote]

I'm using a Hughes & Kettner QC421 which has served me well for years, but it's a bit bulky for solo lifts, and tonally I just fancy a change! From what I've read/heard online, the Shuttles are a bit more modern/clean sounding than the Streamliner, which appears to have a more classic/valve sound- is this a fair estimation? I'd be putting a 73' Jazz/G&L L2000 through it if this helps! Luckily a fellow BCer is letting me hear a Streamliner this week so I'll get a better idea!


[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1350543190' post='1840178']
No such thing as too loud, you can always turn down! (And if the master volume is proving too sensitive don't forget there's the preamp gain (sometimes two of them), your instrument's volume knob, and your fingers). Send me an email - [email protected] and we'll work out if we have something that'll suit you optimally. As you said, lots of variables to consider so consider them we must!
[/quote]

Thanks Alex, I'll swing ou an email when I've got a minute!

[countjodius]

Okay, so with a bit more researching I'm swaying towards the Vanderkley 210 MNT, due to tone and the volume that would suit me, but also the config/size/weight. There's been some great feedback about these so far, but I'd like to know if it's really worth the price difference over the likes of the GK Neo 210 or Barefaced Midget? The Super Twelve looks great, but can't see myself in a situation where I'd need that volume & couldn't just go through the front of house system. As I say, I'd be pulling the trigger based on what I've seen & read online, as I don't have the option of trying where I am unfortunately.

Also, on the Vanderkeley website I see the power listed as 600 Watt AES - is this interchangeable with RMS?

Thanks once again!

[chris_b]

[quote name='countjodius' timestamp='1350658514' post='1841925']
...The Super Twelve looks great, but can't see myself in a situation where I'd need that volume & couldn't just go through the front of house system....
[/quote]

I would never run my gear at full tilt, so I wouldn't worry about the top end of a Super12T, or any other cab.

It's what the cab will sound like at say 30%-50% that would interest me.

[4 Strings]

I have a Streamliner 900 and it is powerful but you'll need it if you use Barefaced cabs. That's not to say its necessarily a bad thing as I am about to recommend the Compact to you if you 'want deep gooey P-bass soul'. I've not used an S12 to be able to give you a comparison but for Motown and soul (much of my current playing) this is, to my mind, the perfect combination. Ample power for, frankly, anything without any problem. Don't need two of either.

The Midget will do the trick too, here is where you'll need the power of the amp. It will go real loud but needs plenty to juice to drive it there. Will need to tweak up the bass control to get your goo. However I can recommend the Compact and Streamliner for soul, the natural sound of the combination, in my opinion, is perfect and will be all you need.

>Just to add the Streamliners have a high pass filter which takes out the inaudible rumble etc like the Thumpinator does, and saves a load of unnecessary cone movement. Saves the £100 you'll spend extra for the 900!

Edited October 19, 2012 by 4 Strings

[spencer.b]

I just changed my Streamliner 9 for a shuttle 9.2 as I found it a bit wooly although with my berg cabs although the streamliner sounds good with vanderkleys

[countjodius]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1350685749' post='1842431']
I have a Streamliner 900 and it is powerful but you'll need it if you use Barefaced cabs. That's not to say its necessarily a bad thing as I am about to recommend the Compact to you if you 'want deep gooey P-bass soul'. I've not used an S12 to be able to give you a comparison but for Motown and soul (much of my current playing) this is, to my mind, the perfect combination. Ample power for, frankly, anything without any problem. Don't need two of either.

The Midget will do the trick too, here is where you'll need the power of the amp. It will go real loud but needs plenty to juice to drive it there. Will need to tweak up the bass control to get your goo. However I can recommend the Compact and Streamliner for soul, the natural sound of the combination, in my opinion, is perfect and will be all you need.

>Just to add the Streamliners have a high pass filter which takes out the inaudible rumble etc like the Thumpinator does, and saves a load of unnecessary cone movement. Saves the £100 you'll spend extra for the 900!
[/quote]

Glad to see we speak the same bass-lingo 4-Strings I'd never heard of a Thumpinator, but that's another tick in the Streamliner box!


[quote name='spencer.b' timestamp='1350691433' post='1842481']
I just changed my Streamliner 9 for a shuttle 9.2 as I found it a bit wooly although with my berg cabs although the streamliner sounds good with vanderkleys
[/quote]

Did the Shuttle make a big difference? Are the berg cabs naturally quite low/low mid heavy (guessing that's where the wool is!)? Interesting how cab choice can make all the difference in getting the tone you want out of an amp (fingers/feel and bass aside of course)- means i better get this right! haha

[fretmeister]

[quote name='spencer.b' timestamp='1350691433' post='1842481']
I just changed my Streamliner 9 for a shuttle 9.2 as I found it a bit wooly although with my berg cabs although the streamliner sounds good with vanderkleys
[/quote]


After a day of testing at Bass Direct I agree! The Streamliner with the Vanderkleys was very nice and the Shuttle 9.2 with a Berg was very nice. A 'liner with berg was still good - but only for that old skool P-bass thick chewy thuddy thing.

I went Shuttle 9.2 and Berg and I haven't looked back for a second.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='countjodius' timestamp='1351030897' post='1846557']
Did the Shuttle make a big difference? Are the berg cabs naturally quite low/low mid heavy (guessing that's where the wool is!)? Interesting how cab choice can make all the difference in getting the tone you want out of an amp (fingers/feel and bass aside of course)- means i better get this right! haha
[/quote]

I often think of things like this as hi-fi where the source makes a little difference to the overall sound, the amp less so but the speakers vary the sound the most, implying compromises in speaker design will have the greatest effect overall. In hifi you need to work from the front, ie first get the best signal possible, then amplify it the best way then present it to the world best. Or, get the bass sound you want, amplify it in the best way and then present that sound to the world with as little influence from the chain as possible.

To get a 'transparent' performance from a cab, ie so it doesn't influence the sound, takes a great deal of effort and care in its design and manufacture. You'll be lucky to get such a performance from a cheap cab which is likely to be full of compromises restricting dynamic, cutting off frequencies, adding colour and breaking up certain frequencies at higher levels. My old Hartke 2.5XL was, I thought, perfect until I discovered how much it influenced the sound, giving it a 'flattering' scooped effect. This discovery was only made when I played through a more transparent sounding cab and it took me quite a while to get used to the sound, which was now a more accurate representation of my bass with me playing it!

Its a one way ticket, having played through my lad's 2.5XL recently I realise by changing I have also lost wooliness, boom and some, frankly, unrealistic highs but gained clarity in sound (by this I don't mean undistorted but better definition) and so I won't be gong back!

I believe you're going about things the right way, ie (assuming you have the bass you love!) settling on your amp and then looking for the best cab to go with it. I'd still recommend the Hartke, is was great for the money, but really, if you've got more to spend (much more, I'm afraid) I'd give a BF (with a 'T' option) a try. It won't flatter your sound, it will simply present what comes out your amp.

[skychaserhigh]

I found the big low end from the Streamliner coupled with the big low end from the Bergantino was just too much.
Through the Vanderkley though things were much better. More definition and punch and a more 3 dimensional sound.
To me , the Vanderkley was an easy choice to make once i had compared it to other cabs.