Lack Of Bass Students

[Pete Academy]

Across the road from our music store is a music school. They teach guitar, bass, piano, vocals, sax, etc. However, the bass side of tuition has been very sparse for years. Why is this? My main theories are that the bands kids are into these days have relatively easy bass parts, which can be picked up fairly easily; there isn't a bass hero around, like Flea, for instance; YouTube provides whatever lessons they need for free.

The guitar teachers are busy enough. So what's the problem with bass?

[Killerfridge]

From my experience, kids generally are of the opinion that bass doesn't matter that much. More often than not I see the bassists in young bands being guitarists who have switched to fill the role, or are new musicians who are being taught by the current guitarist because of the old "bass is easy" cliche.

I think YouTube has a lot to do with it as well - most of the basics can be picked up from guys like MarloweDK etc. even if it's nowhere near as good as having a real tutor.

Finally, I think it is also to do with the fact that before you have had a tutor, you don't realise how much you need one. You think you can learn all you need from YouTube videos, when in reality you are doing yourself a massive disservice.

[Dood]

It's a pity isn't it! I'd love there to be more wanting to take up bass. It was a point I brought up with my business advisor when I started teaching and he was concerned about getting in enough students. I therefore feel very lucky to say that I have a packed teaching diary filled with awesome bass students! I work bloody hard to make sure I give the best lessons - Hmmm, maybe it's because too many guitarists teach bass as a second instrument? Does this put potential students off? Certainly one of my own students felt that he wasn't getting as much out of lessons as he does now, because the tutor 'dabbled in bass'.

[Killerfridge]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1350667639' post='1842118']
It's a pity isn't it! I'd love there to be more wanting to take up bass. It was a point I brought up with my business advisor when I started teaching and he was concerned about getting in enough students. I therefore feel very lucky to say that I have a packed teaching diary filled with awesome bass students! I work bloody hard to make sure I give the best lessons - Hmmm, maybe it's because too many guitarists teach bass as a second instrument? Does this put potential students off? Certainly one of my own students felt that he wasn't getting as much out of lessons as he does now, because the tutor 'dabbled in bass'.
[/quote]

This is also a good point - full time guitar tutors also teaching bass. This is definitely the case at every (secondary) school I have been to.

It's also people like you taking all the students

Conversely, I have just been working with the ACM XL school (basically a rockschool for kids ages 7-12) and there are plenty of bassists there. It took me completely by surprise, as I don't even think I knew what a bass was until i was about 14/15.

[Dood]

He he! Sorry KillerFridge

[Doddy]

I used to teach at that school (as you know,Pete),and I think that one of the problems is that people,
especially bass players don't want to learn (I'm not talking about that school in particular,more
in general). There is still a big attitude that bass is a simple instrument where you can just follow
guitar players,and let's be honest,it doesn't take much to learn that. I also think that the market for
lessons is very over saturated at the moment-there are a lot of people teaching who,quite frankly,shouldn't
be,some are bass players,others are guitar players who dabble.I've spoken to people who've had lessons for
ages and don't know basic things like the notes on the 'board,major scales or even reading-to me,this is doing
the student a major disservice.
I don't teach much anymore,but I've been lucky in that most of my students have been willing to study..although
I've had a few who have just wanted you to say how amazing they are,which has never happened.

[RhysP]

Lets be honest about this - for the majority of pop & rock music you really don't need a tutor, regardless of what instrument you play.
People managed perfectly well for years without private lessons, Youtube etc. & there are plenty of great players out there that never used them.

If you're going to be playing jazz or classical music, or want to go into an area where sight reading is important, then you need the technique & theory behind you, but with pop & rock stuff I think formal lessons are far from essential.

Edited October 19, 2012 by RhysP

[JTUK]

Was talking about this the other day when the new music shop in town...we now have 3..
were asking about bass tutors. I asked what they thought their market would be
and was told beginners whereas I think it would also be gigging players who had got a little
bogged down or stuck in a rut.
I'd prefer to do the latter but I suspect they wouldn't be regular income..??

[redstriper]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1350668819' post='1842147']
Lets be honest about this - for the majority of pop & rock music you really don't need a tutor, regardless of what instrument you play.
[/quote]

I agree and I think lessons can stifle creativity and inhibit the players originality.

I started playing many years ago, before youtube and I couldn't find a tutor anywhere.
I begged various people to give me lessons and they all advised me to teach myself and develop my own style.

I must admit that I love youtube tuition videos now though and they could have saved me a lot of time back in the day.

[Killerfridge]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1350669831' post='1842166']
I agree and I think lessons can stifle creativity and inhibit the players originality.

I started playing many years ago, before youtube and I couldn't find a tutor anywhere.
I begged various people to give me lessons and they all advised me to teach myself and develop my own style.

I must admit that I love youtube tuition videos now though and they could have saved me a lot of time back in the day.
[/quote]

I disagree so hard with this. When you are learning, the only thing you will learn, or figure out by yourself without a tutor is bad technique. You are only as creative as you can be - having a teacher won't change that, only teach you how to channel that creativity more efficiently.

Also, dood, I am quite happy you are stealing the students - I think it works out much better that you teach them rather than me!

[JTUK]

[quote name='Killerfridge' timestamp='1350670420' post='1842185']
I disagree so hard with this. When you are learning, the only thing you will learn, or figure out by yourself without a tutor is bad technique.


[/quote]

And I disagree so hard with this...quite simply the most stupid post I've read here for a long time.
You might want to rethink that.

[Doddy]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1350669831' post='1842166']
I agree and I think lessons can stifle creativity and inhibit the players originality.

[/quote]
I'm sorry,but that's bullshit. Lessons do not stifle anyones creativity or originality-the only way this will
happen is if you let it. If anything,lessons will actually give you new ideas and concepts that you may not
have thought of before.
Sure,you can learn a lot on your own if you choose,but you can learn a lot more,a lot quicker with a
few good lessons. I've seen it myself many times,both as a teacher and as a student.

[Bilbo]

I knew who a guy who bought his kid a bass and set up some lessons for him. After the first lesson he asked him how he got on, The kid said 'It was great, Dad. I learned all about the E string. It goes E F F# G G#. His father was chuffed to see he was getting into it. After a week, the kid went for his second lesson and his Dad asked hm again how he had got on. 'Dad, I love this instrument. Today I learned about the A string. It goes A A# B C C#. HIs father knew he had found something valuable for his son and gave him a pat on the back. After another week, the father said 'How was your lesson this week, son'?

'Cancelled it, Dad. I had a gig'.
.

[Coilte]

Another reason why there might be a shortfall of potential bass players, especially among teenagers, is to do with showmanship, or more to the point, the lack of it that is associated with the bassist's role..

Yes, there are exceptions but rightly or wrongly, the bassist is generally perceived as the one who stays in the background holding everything together (with the drummer), creating a platform for the guitarist to strut his stuff out front in full view, soaking up the applause.

Quite apart from musical knowledge and playing talent, it takes a certain kind of mind set to be a bassist.

[Ruck]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1350670783' post='1842189']
And I disagree so hard with this...quite simply the most stupid post I've read here for a long time.
You might want to rethink that.
[/quote]

+1 but not so angry haha! Grand-Daddy of slap Larry Graham needed no teacher to form his most popular technique of all time used by bassists everywhere.

On a side note I used to teach Bass for Yamaha Music School, I'd make a point of making improvisation the most important tool amongst rhythm, melody and harmony. Most lessons involved; Heres the bass line for this song, heres 2 other ways it can be played, come back next week with two other of your ideas. Pity I moved cities and didnt continue really.

[The Dark Lord]

You don't NEED a tutor. You can have one and it might benefit you if you are that way inclined. But you don't NEED one. It's not very rock 'n' roll is it?

I'm sure there are lots of great teachers out there - and well done to them.

But I'll do without.

[redstriper]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1350672298' post='1842217']
I'm sorry,but that's [b]bullshit[/b]. Lessons do not stifle anyones creativity or originality-the only way this will
happen is [b]if you let it[/b].
[/quote]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3] [/size][/font][/color]
So you agree bullshit can happen then

[RhysP]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1350672311' post='1842219']
I knew who a guy who bought his kid a bass and set up some lessons for him. After the first lesson he asked him how he got on, The kid said 'It was great, Dad. I learned all about the E string. It goes E F F# G G#. His father was chuffed to see he was getting into it. After a week, the kid went for his second lesson and his Dad asked hm again how he had got on. 'Dad, I love this instrument. Today I learned about the A string. It goes A A# B C C#. HIs father knew he had found something valuable for his son and gave him a pat on the back. After another week, the father said 'How was your lesson this week, son'?

'Cancelled it, Dad. I had a gig'.
.
[/quote]

He got a gig after four weeks & learning nothing but the names of the notes on each string up to the fifth fret? That must have been a GREAT band!

[BottomE]

Back to the OP and i would say that there are a lot of crap bass teachers out there and a handful of decent ones. It depends on what level you are with the instrument to a degree but i have had more bad experiences with wannabe teachers than good experiences with excellent teachers. This hasn't stopped me seeking lessons, i just got very choosy about who i wanted to learn from. Even then i do a few lessons and then stop and try to assimilate the info into my approach. Could be a whole year before i go for another lesson. After 27 years i realise that there is so much to learn and to be relaxed about how the knowledge is accumulated. Lessons, YouTube, copying other players and trying to work out why it works...its all valid

[Doddy]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1350672932' post='1842234']

So you agree bullshit can happen then
[/quote]

No,I'm saying that the only people who say that lessons hurt their creativity,had very little,if any,
to begin with.

[arthurhenry]

It's all about people's approach to the thing. There is a never ending universe of musical knowledge and discovery available to everyone. The apparent simplicity of the bass means a lot to a lazy beginner with no real passion for music. It means nothing to the beginner who loves music and has a strong desire to express him/herself through it. If bass is your instrument and you hear a cello concerto, an advertising jingle, birdsong, hum of an aeroplane, prog suite, sax solo, punk album or rock song that you love - you'll want to play it on bass!

Edited October 19, 2012 by arthurhenry

[redstriper]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1350673077' post='1842239']
No,I'm saying that the only people who say that lessons hurt their creativity,had very little,if any,
to begin with.
[/quote]

I don't know of anyone who said that lessons hurt their creativity.
I simply suggested that it was a possibility and you said that my opinion was bullshit, but you also agreed with it, if the learner 'let it happen'.

How do you know how much creativity someone might have or not, with or without lessons?
There are many great self taught players and there are also many who were taught by people like you.
I wouldn't be so arrogant as to suggest that either was more or less creative than the other.

Edited October 19, 2012 by redstriper

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1350669831' post='1842166']
I agree and I think lessons can stifle creativity and inhibit the players originality...
[/quote]
If lessons can stifle creativity and inhibit originality then there can't have been much creativity or originality in the first place.

On the other hand, most creativity and originality is total cr*p anyway and would be better stifled.

[Doddy]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1350674059' post='1842258']
I don't know of anyone who said that lessons hurt their creativity.
I simply suggested that it was a possibility and you said that my opinion was bullshit, but you also agreed with it, if the learner 'let it happen'.

How do you know how much creativity someone might have or not, with or without lessons?
There are many great self taught players and there are also many who were taught by people like you.
I wouldn't be so arrogant as to suggest that either was more or less creative than the other.

Thank God for tabs
[/quote]

I never said that there weren't many great self taught players. There are many great creative musicians
who have had no formal training whatsoever....that's never been an issue.
What I'm saying is that the excuse of not learning because it may hurt your creativity/feel/groove whatever is
a poor excuse-in itself,studying music will only improve your knowledge.I've heard plenty of players use the excuse a
bout their 'creativity' yet play nothing particularly creative and original.
However,If someone learns basic diatonic harmony and then won't play something because it is theoretically wrong
or whatever,then they are letting it affect their creativity. That says more about the person than it does about the validity
of the lessons. The first group are a lot more common than the second.

[MiltyG565]

most non-musical people, especially kids, are quite narrow minded when it comes to instruments. most genres put a heavy focus on guitar solo's, so most kids will see that as the cool instrument. I have also been "told" many times (by non musical people) that bass is much easier than guitar, because there are less strings. I play both, and genuinely, i find guitar easier. It is far easier to write a good guitar rhythm than a bass line. The place i get lessons has 2 drum teachers, 2 piano/theory/singing teachers and 6/7 guitar teachers, but only one bass teacher. it does annoy me in a way. bands here are constantly crying out for bassists, and guitarists are a dime a dozen here. A band i used to be in kinda reformed (yeah, that kinda hurts) into a punk band (i quickly got over it ) but one of the guitarist had to jump on bass, and was looking another guitarist to join to fill in on bass, so he could take his rightful position as the lead guitarist. that is madness. 3 guitarists in a band with only 4 members?

so yes, i encourage everyone to take up bass rather than guitar. I find that bassists tend to be have more musical knowledge than guitarists. alot of guitarists i know are just kinda "john frusciante.... who's he?" "tom morello....what?" where as nearly all the bassists i know could rhyme off nearly every member of nearly every band since the P bass was first launched (slight exaggeration....)