The Dark Lord Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1350748440' post='1843028'] I'd suggest that the drop off in bass students is because fewer kids want to become Victor Wooten and more want to become Geddy Lee, the guy in Kasabian or the bass player in whatever the latest "cool" band is. You don't need lessons to thunder out root notes. [/quote] Are you seriously suggesting that Geddy Lee just thunders out root notes? If you are suggesting that - then there may be something wrong with you. Go see a Doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalextra Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I could do with some lessons, but I'm afraid my unique "crapness" might be stifled! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1350846344' post='1844237'] I could do with some lessons, but I'm afraid my unique "crapness" might be stifled! [/quote] I could do with some lessons, but I'm afraid my unique "crapness" might be revealed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 well then, somebody needs to create a band with big hitting grooves and tasty fills to get the bass teaching going again. i would but... my grooves and fills are neither big hitting nor tasty. (tasting a sound is literally impossible it turns out.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 oh yes, i forgot to mention- i recently cut down the number of lessons i was getting (£36 a week it was costing) and i said to the guy who runs it (also a good friend of mine- £36 was a pretty good deal he did me). He told me not to drop bass lessons, because it is my first instrument, but i suspect it might have something to do with the fact that they have 200 students, and only 8 of them are for bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 In regards to the OP, I think the reason guitar teachers are more in demand is very simple: more people want to play guitar than they do bass. It's seen as far more accessible an instrument and every kid wants to be Dave Grohl at heart. I think lessons from a exceptional teacher are utterly inspiring, and it's a total myth that lessons will somehow detract from your musical personality or stifle your creativity, it's a stupid argument. Having said that, providing you have the capacity (or rather passion) to learn an instrument, there is a lot to be said for sitting down by yourself and just playing as a beginner. Getting to know your instrument as a novice really is everything, and I think there will be occasions where taking lessons too early might well be the wrong thing to do as I think it could well put younger students who are just as keen to learn by themselves off playing initially. It all depends on how a novice likes to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird88 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I don't think we're lacking in bass heroes as such, in fact Chris Wolstenholme of Muse and Fieldy of Korn spring to mind, I just think as others have said, it's a classic case of the bassist being a ghost. I remember reading somewhere (Bass Guitar Mag I think) a bassist in a gigging band said he believed that the bassist job is to be invaluable but invisible, and I think it's all too common a case. Modern bassists aren't necessarily unoriginal or uninspiring but paradoxically you have to be a bassist already to spot the awesomeness! Which gives you the drive to learn. They are also often overshadowed by larger figures, taking Muse as an example Matt Bellamy is a massive character and the face of the band, much as Slash and Axl were for guns and roses. Personally I'm a big fan of John Myung of Dream Theater and John Moyer of Disturbed, but I didn't recognise the things I admire in them until after I became a bassist. And to further the point about kids not wanting to be Victor Wooten, it's more likely they don't know who he is. I'd never heard of him until I started playing. Because if I'd known of him years ago I'd have wanted to be him, he just oozes cool. I also refute the point about churning out root notes, it has a place, I consciously decided not to play the full blues scale in my bands cover of Johnny B Goode because we have a fast and heavy rock vibe to it and I thought root notes gave it more drive (though I indulge in a run down said scale at the end of the chorus' and solos ) though I usually hate to fire out repeated root notes. Aside from that, we're pretty much the geeks of the band, bassists tend to be gear heads, present company proving said point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Killerfridge' timestamp='1350670420' post='1842185'] I disagree so hard with this. When you are learning, the only thing you will learn, or figure out by yourself without a tutor is bad technique [/quote] What, like the (apparently qualified) tutor who's started teaching my 7 year old granddaughter guitar at school and told her that the thickest string needs to be nearest the floor!!. Sorry, have to dissagree here. Unfortunately there are quite a few bad tutors out there. Usually people that play a bit of this and that and think it'll be easy money. The problem I think is that many youngsters view the bass is a necessary evil for a band and doesn't have the wow factor attached to it like guitar or even drums. Bass heros seem to be thin on the ground at the moment and the local young players I've met lately just seem to want to learn a particular song and not actually learn to play the instrument or understand why the song is constructed the way it is. Edited October 21, 2012 by leschirons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I am not proud to say I have never had a bass lesson , but victor wooten, while being a fantastic artist , never inspired me , a bit like on the blues guitarist thread , loads of incredible players that sometimes seem to be w*****g the planking. I play competently , though not extravagantly , I have no 'chops' I play as much or as litlle as I feel is needed , my technique may not be purist ,but , I am not welded to my guitar and I reckon bassists hearing what a bass line is is sooooooo true , to most others the bass is purely filling the sound spectrum. Bass players need lessons in manual handling , GAS avoidance , self esteem (and when they have that ) sound and light engineering , me, I love it I do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I have to say, i found myself picking out the basslines from songs while listening to my ipod months before i bought a bass. then again,it was flea, so the basslines made up 60% of the song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 [quote name='Blackbird88' timestamp='1350860111' post='1844495'] I don't think we're lacking in bass heroes as such, in fact Chris Wolstenholme of Muse and Fieldy of Korn spring to mind, [/quote] Muse and Korn have been around for a fair few years. There are still plenty of bass heroes around, but name a new one from the last 5 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalextra Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Young kids dont seem to want to create bands or learn instruments, its much easier for them to just sample music and sing or "rap". Because every young kid thinks he can "spit lyrics" I am old enough to be able to say that the current music scene "for youngsters" has become stale and boring. Endless R&B artists singing about nightclubs and cars! Music moguls like Simon Cowell creating talent shows and practically forcing them to buy this stuff. What happened to angry youth, rebellion through rock & roll! Shame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 This thread has gone on for 4 pages and no-one appears to have pointed out that the establishment in question is in Stoke - hardly a hot bed of musical activity... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 [quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1350899625' post='1844711'] Young kids dont seem to want to create bands or learn instruments, its much easier for them to just sample music and sing or "rap". Because every young kid thinks he can "spit lyrics" I am old enough to be able to say that the current music scene "for youngsters" has become stale and boring. Endless R&B artists singing about nightclubs and cars! Music moguls like Simon Cowell creating talent shows and practically forcing them to buy this stuff. What happened to angry youth, rebellion through rock & roll! Shame! [/quote] Actually music has never been more diverse and vibrant than it is today. The difference is that the audience has to a bit more work by themselves to find the things that they really want to listen to rather than having them spoon fed by the radio and music press. If the more mainstream music is a bit dull, it's because it spends too much time looking back without really understanding the circumstances that made those bands from the 50s to the 80s so creative in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 [quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1350899625' post='1844711'] Young kids dont seem to want to create bands or learn instruments, its much easier for them to just sample music and sing or "rap". Because every young kid thinks he can "spit lyrics" I am old enough to be able to say that the current music scene "for youngsters" has become stale and boring. Endless R&B artists singing about nightclubs and cars! Music moguls like Simon Cowell creating talent shows and practically forcing them to buy this stuff. What happened to angry youth, rebellion through rock & roll! Shame! [/quote] Seems like a blinkered a view if you ask me, it's hardly surprising that a lot of young people get their listening habits from Radio One but there are plenty of young people who are willing to explore music just like I did as well. The rap and sample thing is misinformed also, plus providing that is the degree of a young person's creative output then it is something to be applauded and encouraged, not slammed. Age simply isn't a factor in music, it's equally as possible that your age just means that you're out of touch with what is popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enricogaletta Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Hey man, don't worry, no offense. I don't use google translator or whatever, just my english knowledge but, sometimes, and I'm pretty sure you can understand this , is a quite complicate explain a deep concept in a different language than your (and I'm sure you agree with it) plus several times people can't understand each other even when they speak the same language, isn't it? Anyway I think you got what I was trying to explain, in my opinion the teacher it's the main key, a great teacher doesn't have his main aces in degree, skills, etc etc, they are important off course, but the true key in teaching, is the capacity to make or transform a boring/not interesting/not supercool thing in some that give you enthusiasm in learning it! For this reason I'm truly believe that great players aren't always great teachers, in my learning history I studied with some of the top players in the world and I can tell you, some of them were awful teachers. I'm connected with several music schools, both with different targets, some are for professional musicians some are for basic instruments courses, in both there are enough bass students. I don't believe the new generations think the bass is less "cool " than other instruments, especially in these last decades where, from any music style, whether the player is a groove or virtuoso type; the bass reached an awesome level of popularity. Talking about the marketing, well I'm pretty sure your friend is good, but if all the other courses are full of students but the bass class still don't reach a good level... well, don't you believe there is something wrong that doesn't depend from the popularity of the bass? Cheers [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1350688464' post='1842452'] I'm sorry Enrico, i don't mean to be rude, but i found that quite hard to read. you aren't perhaps using google translate, are you? I don't mean to insult your english skills though, google translate has a habit of translating things wrong. are you saying that in alot of cases, it is the teachers fault for not doing it for any other reason than the money? because i reject that, most kids just aren't interested in learning bass. the music school i was talking about, i am good friends with the owner, and he has a degree in marketing. his business is quite successful, with 6 fully booked guitar teachers, 2 pretty well booked drum teachers, and a bass teacher who only has a few students. he is a good teacher, so that isn't the issue. The issue is, it isn't seen as a "cool" instrument, and kids always want the "cool" thing, even if it is totally rubbish. [/quote] [quote name='chardbass' timestamp='1350689930' post='1842469'] I understand what Enrico is saying perfectly. [/quote] [quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1350717309' post='1842539'] I agree with Enrico, a good teacher needs to inspire and find out how to get the info into the students head. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird88 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 [quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1350898565' post='1844693'] Muse and Korn have been around for a fair few years. There are still plenty of bass heroes around, but name a new one from the last 5 years? [/quote] Mine would be Amos Williams of Tesseract, but they're a very niche band, and they've only one album. From what I've seen his fretting isn't usually overly fast or technical but he uses a multitude of picking techniques and he has a hell of a groove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Of course, just because there aren't many kids taking lessons that doesn't necessarily mean that they're not learning by some other method. Money is a serious issue for a hell of a lot of families these days and music lessons aren't cheap when you add them to everything else kids expect to have paid for them these days. Buying an instrument is one thing; it can always be sold if the child loses interest after a while. Six months worth of lessons is a lot of non-recoupable money down the drain if the kid gives up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 [quote name='enricogaletta' timestamp='1350908990' post='1844864'] Talking about the marketing, well I'm pretty sure your friend is good, but if all the other courses are full of students but the bass class still don't reach a good level... well, don't you believe there is something wrong that doesn't depend from the popularity of the bass? Cheers [/quote] not really. he promotes all his classes and courses the same amount. There just isn't as much interest in learning bass. His bass teacher has taught me a lot, and i have said many times that the environment needs to be right for me to learn, because i don't learn well in a sterile school environment. I need to be comfortable with the person teaching me. And it needs to be relaxed. That is the reason why i get lessons there. It is relaxed and personable, and sometimes, you don't get that. it is lack of popularity and ignorance i'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1350910239' post='1844892'] Buying an instrument is one thing; it can always be sold if the child loses interest after a while. Six months worth of lessons is a lot of non-recoupable money down the drain if the kid gives up. [/quote] agreed. I was always a bit peeved off that i had to wait untill i was 18 and had to sell my own car before i could afford my own bass, and it was a heap of dung. my brother and sister both had 2 guitars bought for them growing up, but so far, i am the only one playing my instrument daily. (i haven't seen my sister play in years, although she plays every sunday in a church). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1350910239' post='1844892'] Money is a serious issue for a hell of a lot of families these days and music lessons aren't cheap when you add them to everything else kids expect to have paid for them these days. [/quote] True,but drum,piano and guitar teachers seem to be continuing to get students,even if the numbers are decreasing slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1350910998' post='1844917'] True,but drum,piano and guitar teachers seem to be continuing to get students,even if the numbers are decreasing slightly. [/quote] Well, at least piano is a proper instrument......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassist_lewis Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 maybe its coz the bass looks like a guitar and lots of kids don't realise the difference? I was speaking to a friend who teaches guitar in about 20 different schools around the Borders and he's expected by the schools to also teach bass, which he strongly disagrees with (the only guitarist to have a conscience!) so in that instance it seems to be the council/head teachers' fault. I think its quite simple: the majority of people just aren't interested in playing bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1350901566' post='1844736'] This thread has gone on for 4 pages and no-one appears to have pointed out that the establishment in question is in Stoke - hardly a hot bed of musical activity... ;-) [/quote] I think I might disagree with that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 [quote name='enricogaletta' timestamp='1350908990' post='1844864'] Hey man, don't worry, no offense. I don't use google translator or whatever, just my english knowledge [/quote] Don't worry mate we all understood your post perfectly. You express yourself very well. I lived in France for 5 years and understand how difficult it can be to express yourself in a foreign language. Full power to you you are doing brilliant. And i completely agree. Teachers need to be special - not some average guitarist transposing guitar licks onto bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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