Stance Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1350934605' post='1845325'] [url="http://axvault.com/2012/10/10/five-other-fender-instruments/"]http://axvault.com/2...er-instruments/[/url] there's the article. Can't be bothered finding the links to the bass specific part, but it should be in there somewhere. [/quote] Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1350946752' post='1845565'] The scarf jointed necks are stronger than the one piece ones. Is all of the point of a scarf joint, the grain keeps going in the right direction, its the one piece necks with angled headstocks that break off, like on Gibsons. [/quote] ssh! don't like you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1350950275' post='1845588'] Yep. Milty get youz facts straight! [/quote] youz?.... alright. I am a trained joiner, and in my experience, 2 pieces of timber glued together tended to not be as strong as a single piece of timber. I think it was a fair conclusion to draw. and i have seen the scarf joints break off before. was i totally wrong? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barefootbassplayer Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1350962772' post='1845603'] youz?.... alright. I am a trained joiner, and in my experience, 2 pieces of timber glued together tended to not be as strong as a single piece of timber. I think it was a fair conclusion to draw. and i have seen the scarf joints break off before. was i totally wrong? I don't think so. [/quote] Having just gone through the shuker build course we were talking about angled headstocks and he told me that a scarf joint was a lot stronger than an angled headstock and neck all cut from a single piece of wood......although i then went for a three piece neck glued together which was the strongest of all....as long as you're using decent glue it is stronger than the wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1350962772' post='1845603'] youz?.... alright. I am a trained joiner, and in my experience, 2 pieces of timber glued together tended to not be as strong as a single piece of timber. I think it was a fair conclusion to draw. and i have seen the scarf joints break off before. was i totally wrong? I don't think so. [/quote] But what are you using the glued timber for? Anchoring some strings and acting against string tension, or holding up a floor of a house? Everything's relative. For [i]appropriate [/i]stresses and loads (including those found in a stringed instrument), a glued joint will be no weaker than a single piece of wood. Why do you think people who make one piece necks have volutes at the headstock round the back of the nut area? Increases the amount of wood at the weak point. Surely this practice in itself is evidence that the wood needs some extra help? You may well be a joiner, and a noble profession it is, but you aren't a luthier. And before anyone flies off the handle I'm not saying that a luthier is better, just different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1350952824' post='1845594'] If you can actually call it a bass...the Kala U Bass. Really?? Close to 500 quid for something that you will only use to amuse your mates with once or twice and get bored of soon afterwards because you own another bass that you can actually use in a practical, conventional situation. Stupidly expensive for what it is. I hear they are releasing or have already released a 5 string model. Give me a break! [/quote] Had to Google that. Saw a vid of the bass player out of Dread Zeppelin playing one, thought it was a joke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1350949737' post='1845584'] Don't wanna be a negative force on BC, but would it be too much asked for you to tell the rest of us what that object is? best. bert [/quote] [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1350951629' post='1845592'] It's a strap isn't it? [/quote] You told! It's a Levy's strap, mine has been used on three successive long scale basses including the infamous Epi EB3 - and being about 3 ins wide (75mm to the metrically minded) and suede on the inner it doesn't allow neck dive....................................... so far! Though it's still to pass the T-bird test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick's Fine '52 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1350984817' post='1845766'] You told! It's a Levy's strap, mine has been used on three successive long scale basses including the infamous Epi EB3 - and being about 3 ins wide (75mm to the metrically minded) and suede on the inner it doesn't allow neck dive....................................... so far! Though it's still to pass the T-bird test. [/quote] Due to the large number of T'Birds used at the Reading Rock Festival, they decided to use this, set up above the stage, this way, T'Bird players simply hooked their headstock to the chain, the driver then raised the chain to the desired headstock height, thus preventing any stage problems, often associated with such use. Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1350962772' post='1845603'] youz?.... alright. I am a trained joiner, and in my experience, 2 pieces of timber glued together tended to not be as strong as a single piece of timber. I think it was a fair conclusion to draw. and i have seen the scarf joints break off before. was i totally wrong? I don't think so. [/quote] It's not just about strength - it's about stability. A one piece neck can move. Three piece neck means any movements are further minimised because the movement of one piece of wood has to works against the movemnet of another 2. Net result? They generally don't move anywhere near as much as a one piece. As for glued timber, you only have to look at a Gibson headstock break. It breaks once. You tightbond it. Drop your Gibson again, the headstock will tend to break anywhere but where the glue is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaypup Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) I like unusual basses, I like basses from the 1970's/80's. But, I hate Guilds - fugly unbalanced mud-coloured pieces of crap! Edited October 23, 2012 by chaypup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Fender Jazz basses - hate the necks, REALLY hate that horrible chrome control plate, hate that slanted body shape, hate the shape of the scratchplate & hate the sound. I'm also really not a fan of four-in-a-line headstocks in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musophilr Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I never liked Rickenbackers. Dull thud for a note with way too much top end plick, and nothing in between to define what the note is. Never really liked the sound of Gibson basses but Jack Bruce with Cream sounded OK. Martin Turner's Thunderbird also did what he needed it to but I can't honestly say its a 'good' bass sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mep Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I hate all 5 string basses and basses used for slapping. Opps sorry, thought I was writing my piece for BGM Bassically Speaking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harleyheath Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Well although its been said more than once on here i'm going to stick my neck on the line an say it again...and please if you own one, please don't be offended!!.....Fenders, I had a Fender deluxe 5, anniversary model, fully active and it sounded like mud, 5th string had no presence, at all, it sound ok for 60's & 70's soul and that was it, it was a one trick pony with a terrible, slow action, now i'm aware that there is some great sounding Fenders out there, and i'm aware that they pretty much invented the electric bass and for that we love Leo, i'll even say I don't mind how they look and that they haven't changed since forever, it works, I mean they have brought out other models but they never really sold, people want that classic Fender look, they are an icon, a rock and indie band stable and some of the old ones sound fantastic, so whats my beef...... simple.....price to build quality ratio, Leo wanted to find a way to get a bass out to the public, on mass, like his guitars, he kept things simple, very simple, which is great if the price reflected that! But it don't The basics of a Fender bass, a slab 2 but probably a 3 piece CNC body, a single piece bolt on CNC neck, made from 1inch thick non quarter sawn maple, non-lay back headstock with string tree so you can make the neck out of the thinest piece of wood, a bent piece of steel for a bridge base, with tapped rod for bridge saddles, plastic single coil pick-ups, open gear tuners with pressed steel parts, plastic scratch plate to hide the routing, passive electrics, plastic inlay, everything and I mean everything was done to make it easy to construct, cheap to buy and cheap to build, and if you go for a good one, with MOP inlay, a veneer top with a nice colour and whoooo a bound neck the price is up there with a handmade, active, expensive wood, bass with all the top parts available. I'm not opposed to Fenders, I still like them, love the old school sound, love the look, but your paying for the name and the name alone!! Its a great marketing idea and they must made a bloody fortune out of every bass, so sweet for the share holders but for the buyer.... a £600 tops bass for what can be 3 times that....no....thats wrong! To be fair they are not the only ones doing this, but man they excel at it! There are a few basses where the price tag has exceeded the bass buy far and a even a few custom makers that have done the same, which is a shame, but there you go! Saying that I do love the Fender look i'm designing a Fender look bass now with either a through or set neck with some proper parts for what will probably be the same price as a top end Fender or cheaper, hopefully it will look as good or better and sound better or i'll look like a proper mug! lol Rant over, thank you! Edited October 23, 2012 by harleyheath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1350986680' post='1845797'] It's not just about strength - it's about stability. A one piece neck can move. Three piece neck means any movements are further minimised because the movement of one piece of wood has to works against the movemnet of another 2. Net result? They generally don't move anywhere near as much as a one piece. As for glued timber, you only have to look at a Gibson headstock break. It breaks once. You tightbond it. Drop your Gibson again, the headstock will tend to break anywhere but where the glue is. [/quote] no, they clearly said it was stronger, not more stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Yeah, for the scarf joint, strength is the thing, laminating necks is a whole other thing. If the scarf joint is less strong than expecting wood to have strength in two different directions, then something is really wrong with the joining. Bear in mind the fingerboard makes for another laminate as it goes over the joint. And traditional luthiers were scarf jointing necks long before American made guitars. Fairly sure Gibson did one piece necks because the wood was cheaper than the time joining the neck and letting it dry. Since I'm friends with a few luthiers/guitar techs on Facebook, I see broken Gibson headstock photos most days on my feed, very few others though, someone fell into a Telecaster and broke the neck right in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harleyheath Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Ooooo, one piece V laminate necks an scarf joints, theres a can of worms! lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1350986680' post='1845797'] It's not just about strength - it's about stability. A one piece neck can move. Three piece neck means any movements are further minimised because the movement of one piece of wood has to works against the movemnet of another 2. Net result? They generally don't move anywhere near as much as a one piece. As for glued timber, you only have to look at a Gibson headstock break. It breaks once. You tightbond it. Drop your Gibson again, the headstock will tend to break anywhere but where the glue is. [/quote] tried this. You're utterly correct. buggered my les paul though. at least i know you're right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harleyheath Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) I'll put my tupence in if nobody minds, Yh I totally agree, I feel a laminate neck is stronger than a single piece neck if constructed properly, I feel that unless a single piece neck if perfectly quarter sawn right though-out its entire length then it much more liable to move, even if it is its still not as good as a laminate, and if its not perfectly quartered then theres even more chance of movement, where as a laminate neck you can remove that chance by opposing any variation in the quarter and thus off setting movement against movement kind of thing, and the glue joint isn't a problem (not that it ever should be) because its not parallel to the neck tension. This isn't such a problem in good quality mahogany as the grain pattern isn't such a winter/summer growth pattern more of a continuous even grain with little winter hard grain, probably why it was used so much on single piece guitar necks? As for the scarf join, In my head I really can't make up my mind in honesty if it is stronger or not, I understand the reason and the fact that the grain orientation is better, but its only better below the bottom of the neck, more into the headstock where the grain orientation would normally be weaker, still you don't often get a break mid headstock even with all the holes drilled in it, I can't help feeling that the scarf joint is as much a money saving idea as it is for strength, It does mean you can use a 25-30mm piece of wood as opposed to a 50-60mm piece of wood, getting two for one cost wise? Still I have repaired quite a few broken headstocks and they do go just under the neck area a lot, so the scarf join would stop that, but I've also repaired a few scarf joins that have popped, for me i'll stick with laminated neck, no scarf an a good ole volute, which does help that problem area as well as look pretty, its a dilly of a pickle. Edited October 23, 2012 by harleyheath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='StephenFerguson' timestamp='1350892960' post='1844627'] I have to disagree, have you played a lindo or a stagg, or tried to let go of a thunderbird without the headstock brutaly saluting Isaac newton? It's not what you play, its how you play it, and if you try to bass guitar using a wet turd, your hands get shity. Word. [/quote] Fender roadworn Jazz- a wet turd??? You got to be kidding me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1350951629' post='1845592'] It's a strap isn't it? [/quote] What's a strap? Seriously though: sorry for pulling your leg. I didn't mean to, but just thought a winkey was superfluous. Will be more careful. I suppose Stu meant a strap with extra resistance so neck dive gets less impact. best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1350985994' post='1845787'] [/quote] Brilliant! Edited October 23, 2012 by BassTractor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFerguson Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 [quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1351004427' post='1846086'] Fender roadworn Jazz- a wet turd??? You got to be kidding me!! [/quote] What? when did I mention a Fender Roadworn in this post, if you read mine back you will see I am a fan of Fenders. I was saying that some basses are simply poor regardless of the adjustments you make to them (Stagg and lindo for example) and that some have no excuse for needing such major adjustments (gibsons) So no, im not kidding you, I just don't think you caught my post right.....I was refering to the last bit that said its not what you play. Thats an admirable sentiment but you are equating a Fender to a cheap bass, which it isnt unless you consider a fodera or Wal bass normally priced, I was pointing out that some basses are simply rubbish and a good bass with versitility does add to a bass players arsenal regardless of developement or talent.....if not we would all play £80 lindo basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 when you say laminate, i assume you are talking about 3/4/5/6 piece necks, and not encasing the necks in plastic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I've had a few Staggs, some adjustment makes them pretty good, really good for the money, and they come in some nice styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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