So a Rockinbetter isn't a Rickenbacker & a Rockinbetter isn't a Tokai?

[Bill-R]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1355690215' post='1901453']
Jade Australia distribute lots of other guitar brands.

You just have to be looking at the [url="http://www.jadeaustralia.com.au"]right web site[/url].
[/quote]

Yes they do sell other brands but do not list them in the Tokai Australia web site. they are under there own name.
if you open up the Tokai new models it lists Rebelrocker but no other make apart from tokai.
if you watch the video of the Tokai factory on the link you gave, near the very end of the film there is a guy playing a RG43.
the strange thing is there is no rg43 listed in the Tokai guitars only the Rebelrocker.
if rebelrocker are a diffrent make then why put them on there tokai site and not list them under Rebelrocker.
why show a rg43 being played at the end of the video about the Tokai factory if there is no branded Rg43 made by tokai.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Bill-R

[Bill-R]

BigRedX
you do not have an e-mail address for Jade Australia.
i click on contacts and it says "E-mail" but when i click nothing happens.
i would like to send them an e-mail and ask them about any conection with Rebelrocker and Tokai and see what they say.
it you can get there e-mail could you let me have it and i'll ask them about it maybe you could ask too.
thanks
Bill

[Bill-R]

Just got an E-mail back.



Hi Bill,



Well it's a little surprising that Tokai Japan have told you that they have nothing to do with the RebelRocker/Rockinbetter basses, but not totally surprising.




They're actually made in a Chinese factory. The same one that makes the Chinese Tokai guitars. So technically Tokai Japan have nothing to do with them apart from distribution.




Hope that helps.




Cheers,







[size=3]
[b][font="'Century Gothic"][size="2"][color="black"][color=black][size=2][b]Dean Bennison[/b][/size][/color][/color][/size][/font][/b][/size][size=3]
[size="2"][color="black"][color=black][size=2][font="'Century Gothic"]Store Manager[/font][/size][/color][/color][/size][/size]

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1355693302' post='1901503']
Rockinbetters sold by dealers without a Tokai dealership. A fairly cursory search reveals that.
[/quote]
That's correct. I've been in two guitar shops recently that had new Rockinbetters on display but didn't stock a single Tokai.

[iconic]

Or one can buy through trade tang, Chinese site, plenty on there, from around 200 delivered, the blue ones look pretty!

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='iconic' timestamp='1355697617' post='1901626']
Or one can buy through trade tang, Chinese site, plenty on there, from around 200 delivered, the blue ones look pretty!
[/quote]
It does look nice. Nice detailed photos of all the guitars and basses but none of the front side of the headstock.

[Bill-R]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1355696070' post='1901583']
That's correct. I've been in two guitar shops recently that had new Rockinbetters on display but didn't stock a single Tokai.
[/quote]

I got my Rockinbetter from a shop, Rich tone music and they said they were a tokai dealer but that had no Tokai guitars in there shop or listed on there site, maybe they only stock Rockinbetter as there Tokai guitars.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Bill-R

[Bill-R]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1355698762' post='1901652']
It does look nice. Nice detailed photos of all the guitars and basses but none of the front side of the headstock.
[/quote]
not the same bass as the rockinbetter. the pick guard is about an inch further away from the bridge pick-up. no checked binding and it also has the twin ric type stereo outputs. the rockinbetter has a single output.
its the older 20 fret model. all the rockinbetters since 2010 have been 22 fret.
in the picture of the black hardware one, you have a black no name TRC.
the maple one the grain seemed not to match so not sure if its a thru neck or a set neck. hard to tell with the picture.
other than that it looks not bad.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Bill-R

[iconic]

I found one on another Chinese trade site with bass collection on the trc!

[KevB]

OK, just needed clarification. Their blurb at the side of the products is extremely misleading in that case! It gives the strong impression that the ric copy is a prodcut of Tokai gakki.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1355845415' post='1903574']
OK, just needed clarification. Their blurb at the side of the products is extremely misleading in that case! It gives the strong impression that the ric copy is a prodcut of Tokai gakki.
[/quote]

Of course they do. No-one is going to pay $999 for what is in reality a very ordinary Chinese-made importer branded copy, without the implication that it has something to with a make known for producing high-quality instruments.

[iconic]

The rockinbetter I saw had a made in Indonesia sticker in the head?

[Bill-R]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1355856018' post='1903775']
I had thought your email had put this one to bed.



And for the record, Tokai don't own a factory in China. Your email said that it was made in the same factory as the (cheap) Tokai (branded) instruments, the same as doubtless many other brands originate from the same factory.

I'm not sure why there is the urgent need to associate the Rockinbetters with Chinese made instruments licensed by Tokai. It's probably doing Rockinbetter instruments a disservice.
[/quote]

have you any proof they dont own or part own the factory in China, they did say (Tokai) that they had sent over there top men to set up a factory in China, why do that if its only contracting out you guitars, and why is there a Ric copy shown in the Japan factory when they don't sell ric copys under the tokai brand since 1984. the China made Tokai all come from the factory that also makes Rockinbetter, we have no proof off any other Guitar maker having guitars being made there. that is all we really know so how can Tokai say that have no idea where Rockingbetters are made when all there dealers sell then under the tokai brand and say openly that there made in the Tokai China factory.
there is more to this than meets the eye! here is a link to the Tokai China site,
[url="http://www.tokaichina.com/"]http://www.tokaichina.com/[/url]
i do not understand Chinese so I only looked at the pictures but it does talk about Tokai and no other maker!!!
what ever the truth is, Rockinbetter is a very good bass and plays and sounds good and you are right it really does not matter as it does not change the bass in any way.

here is what is said about them:-
Part of the new to Guitars Plus 'Rebelrocker' range. These fine copy guitars are all based on famous Rickenbacker guitars and are made by the Tokai Chinese factory, and originally available only in the UK. As Rickenbacker have not been available via a distributor since 1999, it makes sense to have these high level lookalikes made available to the Australian guitar and bass players. This bass is available in 'Fireglow' also. Sounds authentic - even when unplugged. The Ace of Spades!!! Lemmy out of here.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Bill-R

[jahfish]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1351033843' post='1846597']
It would have been great if they'd called him Daisy Rock.
[/quote]

or Warwick Dolphin!

[Bassassin]

Hilarious thread!

Quite sorry I missed participating in this one during my "wilderness years" but I do not think I could have been any more persuasive and eloquent than RigRedX, Noelk27 & Musky were - all to no avail.

Wonder why someone would be so desperate to convince themselves and everyone else that their cheap Chinese copy was a particular sort of cheap Chinese copy. Poor Bill-R. I feel sorry for him. And whoever had to wipe up the mess when his head exploded.

Jon.

[Happy Jack]

So Bill-R wasn't you in disguise, stirring up apathy?

Damn. Another conspiracy theory falls apart.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1443957097' post='2878911']
So Bill-R wasn't you in disguise, stirring up apathy?

Damn. Another conspiracy theory falls apart.
[/quote]

I don't know whether to be amused or hurt that you would thinks such a thing!

I mean... the spelling... the... the... the [i]grammer[/i]!

J.

[Skybone]

Holy thread resurrection Batman!

I still wouldn't swap my Faker's for anything else, other than a pukka Ric. As I definitely cannot afford 1, let alone 2 4003/1's, I can't see that happening any time soon.

[Bassassin]

Ditto here - I'd like a nice early 70s FireGlo 4001 (with all the vintage bells & whistles) to add to the collection, but I'm not parting with any of my Fakers anytime soon.

On balance though, I'd prefer a nice early 70s Fujigen dot-neck - like the one Chris Squire's tinkering with here:





J.

[Bill-R]

Hi Just wanted to add... Still have my Rockinbetter and its still going strong. no problems with in in the last 4 years... only ever had to change strings, still stays in tune for months at a time.... I'm more that happy with it and it was well worth the money for the plesure i have got out it.... thanks to all the guys for the excelt discusion....in the end nothing proved... only that i have a good bass that has lasted 4 years so far... seems much harder top find them nowadays....Cheers...

[Skybone]

Finding a "proper" Rockinbetter is a lot harder now that there are a number of set neck "ChinaFakers" coming over, quite a few with "Rockinbetter" TRC's (though they are in a minority). There are definitely a few out there, but most retailers can't touch them without the fear of having name brands removed and the potential of Distributors withdrawing their services because of the far reaching legal implications. Most online auction & sale sites can't sell them, especially if they mention a certain brand name.

On day, a certain brand name might realise that having off-shore sourced, licensed products, that meet the companies Quality Control standards, would gain them more sales, rather than alienating potential customers.

[keefbaker]

Never in all my days did I think I'd see people arguing about Tokai.

[Skybone]

You should head over to some of the MIJ guitar forums, there are some "interesting" discussions (over and above 'how old is my guitar / how much is it worth'). Not forgetting the "if it aint a (insert guitar brand name here), it aint worth nothing" discussions.

[prowla]

Necrothread time...

There's a "Tokai" Rockinbetter RG43 up for sale at the moment, so I was looking up some info and happened across this thread.

Some facts:

• Tokai is a place in Japan and/or a translation of "city". The word is not copyrighted.
• Tokai Gakki is a Japanese guitar maker founded in 1947, who brands their instruments "Tokai" and is commonly called "Tokai".
• Tokai UK is a UK importer of guitars, including (but not limited to) Tokai.

Tokai Gakki did list Rickenbacker 6-string guitars (RG43) in their catalogue, but never a 4-string bass; the fact that they listed is 6-string guitar is no proof whatsoever that they did a bass.

Now, with a quick sleight-of-hand, Tokai UK commissioned a run of Ric bass copies, branded them Rockinbetter, and sold them as Tokai (UK) and plant the seeds for people to infer the link. Likewise they a run of 6-string guitars, even calling them "RG43" to hint at continuity, or even to satisfy existing orders?

This is not much difference to Rose Morris being the importer of Rickenbackers and also having their own Shaftesbury branded copies (made in Italian or Japanese factories), apart from the suspiciously not-dissimilar company name similarity.

To show how easy it is, anybody can set up a UK company for fifty quid and can commission a run of a hundred instruments from a factory in the far-East.

So, suppose I don my entepreneurial hat and create a company and called it "Tokai GB"; I could then get a batch of "Ronniebarker" basses made, say £10k for a run of 100, and flog them on. If I planted a few whispers here and there and gave a nonchalant shrug of my shoulders and knowingly tapped my nose any time someone asked if Tokai was involved, then hopefully the myth would perpetuate.

As for the Rockinbetters themselves, IMHO, they are adequate instruments but pretty dire copies of Rickenbackers, being the wrong scale, having dissimilar hardware, and being oversized.

The irony now is that, once they shifted production from Indonesia to China, the plans got out and everybody started making them (with fake "Rickenbacker" logos on them), to the point that the Chickenbackers became a cuckoo which pushed Rockinbetters out of the nest.

And now we have a proliferation of mediocre copies of Rockinbetters (not Rickenbackers) on the market at ridiculously low prices.

[Skybone]

Did Tokai UK commission them?

They just bought a load of basses and guitars that were already in production, between 2000 & 2012. They were being sold under the guise of the "Rebelrocker" in Australia and as the Bass Collection Californian here in the UK. The location of their manufacture is still  a bit of a mystery, though more than likely China.

Tokai UK then proceeded to advertise them in the UK & European Guitar magazines, alongside the Tokai guitars & basses. Which brings us to the "Tokai Rockinbetter" "myth".

It's just iffy advertising.

Tokai Gakki did actually make Rickenbacker copy guitars and basses that were advertised in their catalogues in Japan in the late 70's & early 80's, but obviously, these were made in more smaller batches than the money making Gibson & Fender copies.