Covers and attention to detail

[charic]

[quote name='witterth' timestamp='1351511038' post='1851866']
"own stamp" or "my version" often means "I cant be arsed" to learn it properly
Just a thought
(dons tin hat)
W
[/quote]

-1

I learn the original and keep the bits I like the rest becomes my own

[Doddy]

Interestingly,I've spoken to a number of people on all instruments who claim to play exactly what's on the recording and
they never do.
Personally,it depends on a few things-if you want me to learn a whole set in a few day it's going to be close but not
exact,but all the important bits will be there.If you want it to be specific,write it out. If I'm playing a regular gig,it might
start out being spot on but it will generally evolve over time,but again,the important stuff will still be there.

It's not about not being arsed to learn things properly-more that everyone has their own 'thing'.Darryl Jones plays differently
than Bill Wyman. Sean Hurley plays differently than Pino Palladino.'Ready' Freddie plays differently than Chuck Rainey.
Neil Jason plays differently to Will Lee.Brian Ray plays differently than Paul McCartney. They might be playing the same
songs,but there are always going to be differences in the ways that they approach and play their parts.

[Adrenochrome]

Yes, I live for all the subtleties, exactly like you highlighted. Most bands do half-arsed versions of most covers, in my humble opinion of course.
I see quite a few bands that don't even bother to put in the 'B' in the verse for She Sells Sanctuary for instance.

[Marvin]

What bugged me was the not being arsed to learn the song at all, that some people have. Get to rehearsal and they attempt, I emphasise attempt, to busk their way through. They don't even learn the general structure. I'm in an originals band now and hope to be for some time
Rant over.

[witterth]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1351522774' post='1852107']
Interestingly,I've spoken to a number of people on all instruments who claim to play exactly what's on the recording and
they never do.
Personally,it depends on a few things-if you want me to learn a whole set in a few day it's going to be close but not
exact,but all the important bits will be there.If you want it to be specific,write it out. If I'm playing a regular gig,it might
start out being spot on but it will generally evolve over time,but again,the important stuff will still be there.

It's not about not being arsed to learn things properly-more that everyone has their own 'thing'.Darryl Jones plays differently
than Bill Wyman. Sean Hurley plays differently than Pino Palladino.'Ready' Freddie plays differently than Chuck Rainey.
Neil Jason plays differently to Will Lee.Brian Ray plays differently than Paul McCartney. They might be playing the same
songs,but there are always going to be differences in the ways that they approach and play their parts.
[/quote]
No, no, no, there is a question of "degree" involved here Mr Doddy, if its the lofty heights of Pino Palladino interpreting John Entwistle lines then there is a point to be made about "my version".
but come on, local covers band down the "Dog and Duck" ? just play it right otherwise its just an annoyance.

[witterth]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1351523745' post='1852125']
Yes, I live for all the subtleties, exactly like you highlighted. Most bands do half-arsed versions of most covers, in my humble opinion of course.
I see quite a few bands that don't even bother to put in the 'B' in the verse for She Sells Sanctuary for instance.
[/quote]
or play a D in chorus of "All right now" Jezzuz its in A!!

[Dr.Dave]

I'm in a covers band and it's our deliberate policy NOT to pay any attention to the original other than to say 'We like this - let's do it our way'.

Personally , I have no idea what the bass player in the original band played in any numbers we do. In fact I can think of at least 4 covers in our set that I've never even heard. Other band members suggested them and I just played along doing what I thought was best for the song. I don't listen to music much , as I often say - I'm a creator not a consumer. I can't imagine anything more mind numbing than listening to a bass line for the purposes of copying it. I'm interested in songs. That's melody plus lyric. After that I play what I want to play.

As a young man self-learning the mechanics of playing an instrument of course I copied. Then one day it occured to me that just because I could do all the basslines on 2112 and Moving Pictures it didn't make me as good as the guy who dreamed them up. I haven't listened to a bassline since. In fact that was going to be my answer in the 'when did you feel you really became a bass player' thread.

[witterth]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1351521525' post='1852086']
-1

I learn the original and keep the bits I like the rest becomes my own
[/quote]
Sorry,Cant agree, do it properly is my thing

[Doddy]

[quote name='witterth' timestamp='1351524124' post='1852134']
No, no, no, there is a question of "degree" involved here Mr Doddy, if its the lofty heights of Pino Palladino interpreting John Entwistle lines then there is a point to be made about "my version".
but come on, local covers band down the "Dog and Duck" ? just play it right otherwise its just an annoyance.
[/quote]
Local covers band down the pub are generally the most likely to be playing it 'in their own way'-how many times do you
hear a band play a pop 'hit' in a rock style (which I usually think is horrible)? Ignoring that though,it is still possible to play a
song right without playing it exactly.

[Dr.Dave]

[quote name='witterth' timestamp='1351520973' post='1852080']
so you're in the "cant be arsed to learn it" camp then.
[/quote]

I'd describe myself as too skilled to need to.

[charic]

[quote name='witterth' timestamp='1351524689' post='1852142']
Sorry,Cant agree, do it properly is my thing
[/quote]

Do it better is mine

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1351524725' post='1852145']
I'd describe myself as too skilled to need to.
[/quote]

This.

[Marvin]

there could well be a distinction between the band who have the skill to play something other than the original line and create something. As opposed to those who are too lazy and/or lacking on skill and just bodge it.

[witterth]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1351524691' post='1852143']
Local covers band down the pub are generally the most likely to be playing it 'in their own way'-how many times do you
hear a band play a pop 'hit' in a rock style (which I usually think is horrible)? Ignoring that though,it is still possible to play a
song right without playing it exactly.
[/quote]
Hmmm, it is. I'm just talking about getting it right, and "in their own way" is often an awfull kak-handed and shoddy approach.
its the way of things.

[witterth]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1351524947' post='1852152']
Do it better is mine
[/quote]
wow!! you must be Really good

[Dr.Dave]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1351525368' post='1852159']
there could well be a distinction between the band who have the skill to play something other than the original line and create something. As opposed to those who are too lazy and/or lacking on skill and just bodge it.
[/quote]

There's no need for anyone to justify why they do things the way they do. If you want to copy the fine detail - fine. If you don't - fine. If you can't be arsed - fine. If you're just beginning - fine. If you've done a thousand gigs - fine. There's no right or wrong here - just an interest in other people's approach.

[charic]

[quote name='witterth' timestamp='1351525613' post='1852169']
wow!! you must be Really good
[/quote]

nah, I just play songs that were previously crap

But seriously, I wouldn't change the bass line unless I thought it would sound better with it changed would I? Seeing as I learned the original first

[witterth]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1351525778' post='1852171']
There's no need for anyone to justify why they do things the way they do. If you want to copy the fine detail - fine. If you don't - fine. If you can't be arsed - fine. If you're just beginning - fine. If you've done a thousand gigs - fine. There's no right or wrong here - just an interest in other people's approach.
[/quote]
Dr Dave has it right here and I'm sorry I hadn't thought it through a bit more, think hes right on this one,I think I'm right about learning the tune (for your bog standard pub covers band ) but take Dr Daves point, its horses for corses.
Charic must be making Victor Wooten sweat though!!

[Marvin]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1351525778' post='1852171']


There's no need for anyone to justify why they do things the way they do. If you want to copy the fine detail - fine. If you don't - fine. If you can't be arsed - fine. If you're just beginning - fine. If you've done a thousand gigs - fine. There's no right or wrong here - just an interest in other people's approach.
[/quote]

Pah! You don't believe that for a second. You're not trying to tell me you haven't heard a band murdering a song because they're doing in their own way and not wanted to clout them with a nearby piece of furniture for being crap. If you are, you've gone down in my estimation

[Twigman]

The 'originals' are only whatever version of the song the band that recorded the song was playing at the time they recorded it.

Our songs are constantly in a state of flux and, in reality, there is no such thing as the 'original' - In fact the original original was just a sketched demo (probably on an old 4 track).....

IMHO there is NO SUCH THING as the 'original'.

[seashell]

From an inexperienced players perspective, I usually try to stick as closely as poss to the original as it is bound to be better than anything I could think up.
However, if it's too difficult for me (e.g too fast!) I'd rather miss out some bits and play it with conviction than try to furiously copy the original and fumble it.
So sometimes it's a a simplified version of the original at the moment.

[JTUK]

For the most part, I'd be aiming for the essense of the song and the part...

The proof is, does the track work and it does or we don't play it.
I don't much care for ripping sonmeone elses parts and because I know ours work, I don't have to.
As I said..if it doesn't we don't do it anyway.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1351527564' post='1852209']
Pah! You don't believe that for a second. You're not trying to tell me you haven't heard a band murdering a song because they're doing in their own way and not wanted to clout them with a nearby piece of furniture for being crap. If you are, you've gone down in my estimation
[/quote]

There's a non-sequitur here.

There are bands that play the original lines and arrangements but are still crap, and there are brilliant bands that 'do their own thing'.

The two classifactions, i.e. Crap/Good and Original/Non-original, are not intrinsically linked.

[Jacqueslemac]

[quote name='witterth' timestamp='1351527013' post='1852193']Charic must be making Victor Wooten sweat though!!
[/quote]

Isn't Victor Wooten on record as saying he doesn't believe in musical education and that players should make up their own way of learning? He seems to support the "do it your own way" camp.

Mind you, I think he's just a frustrated guitarist. I can't say I've listen to a lot of his stuff, but "serving the song" seems an alien concept to him!

[Dr.Dave]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1351527564' post='1852209'] Pah! You don't believe that for a second. You're not trying to tell me you haven't heard a band murdering a song because they're doing in their own way and not wanted to clout them with a nearby piece of furniture for being crap. If you are, you've gone down in my estimation [/quote]
Bollocks. I've heard lots of bands being crap and wanted to clout them with a bit of furniture but tht's been down to technical execution of what they're doing - not the way they choose to arrange a song or their own parts , so don't go telling me what I believe or not. As for going down in your estimation...well - there's a body blow