leroybasslines Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I've got a good ear. Perhaps too good: my reading is there but pretty poor. I've done reading gigs and no one has noticed that I can't keep up with the dots and instead do it by ear and kind of make it up. I've always learnt by imitation and that means I can learn a tune totally by ear very quickly which means I've never really had to rely on reading 100%. I just think it depends on how you learn, but to be able to read a little or enough to get by is an important skill to have up your sleeve and learn more about the bass and music in general. Also, I don't think that Western Classical notation suits a lot of music guys on here might be playing. If you write down some funk/soul lines, they look real complicated; if you learn them by ear they just make sense. Syncopation, ghost notes, etc just don't translate that well onto the page. But if you're playing straighter stuff it makes more sense. Pino Palladino can't really read music, he seems to do ok... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 [quote name='leroybasslines' timestamp='1352156634' post='1859598'] Pino Palladino can't really read music, he seems to do ok... [/quote] Yeah,but Pino is in the small minority when it comes to players who do his kind of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Reading is also far the best way to memorise all the note names on the board, its worth doing it for that alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Have a go and see how it works out. For starters, begin learning the notes on the fingerboard, and I mean really learn them. No hesitations, no counting frets, no "I thinks that one is an E and so this one must be an, er... a Bb. Or is it?". If you're hunting around the bass for the right note you'll make very slow progress learning to read music or applying any music theory. If you've an iPhone/ iPad then this app is a great help [url="https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bass-clef/id317094014?mt=8"]https://itunes.apple...d317094014?mt=8[/url] Good luck! Edited November 6, 2012 by Fat Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Glasgow Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 [font=Helvetica][size=3] I feel that one of the most useful aspects of music notation is that it gives you a 'visual' way of understanding and representing rhythm. [/size][/font] [font=Helvetica][size=3] I've always used visual shapes on the fingerboard to help me learn various basslines, scales, arpeggios, etc. I have found this to be a very easy and natural way to learn this pitch-related information, but when learning the rhythmic side of music I felt that it was less clear and obvious because I didn't have a visual way of understanding it. Music notation gives you clear and simple way of understanding, representing and memorising rhythms.[/size][/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Kevin Glasgow' timestamp='1352211540' post='1860163'] [font=Helvetica][size=3]I feel that one of the most useful aspects of music notation is that it gives you a 'visual' way of understanding and representing rhythm. [/size][/font] [font=Helvetica][size=3]I've always used visual shapes on the fingerboard to help me learn various basslines, scales, arpeggios, etc. I have found this to be a very easy and natural way to learn this pitch-related information, but when learning the rhythmic side of music I felt that it was less clear and obvious because I didn't have a visual way of understanding it. Music notation gives you clear and simple way of understanding, representing and memorising rhythms.[/size][/font] [/quote] Yep, same for me. Can't go far wrong with great ears [b]and[/b] great reading chops. Garry Edited November 6, 2012 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 About time I learned to read music. You should see the way I write baselines down; like the scribblings and drawings of a 5-year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1352208538' post='1860092'] If you've an iPhone/ iPad then this app is a great help [url="https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bass-clef/id317094014?mt=8"]https://itunes.apple...d317094014?mt=8[/url] Good luck! [/quote] Downloading this right now.....thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Hmmm... that ap is pretty good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='leroybasslines' timestamp='1352156634' post='1859598'] Also, I don't think that Western Classical notation suits a lot of music guys on here might be playing. If you write down some funk/soul lines, they look real complicated; if you learn them by ear they just make sense. Syncopation, ghost notes, etc just don't translate that well onto the page. But if you're playing straighter stuff it makes more sense. [/quote] The two are not mutually exclusive . IME, rhythm is harder to read than pitch/notes but you can always find a recording to help you. Take in a couple of phrases by ear first and you've got the rhythm and feel of the piece, then read the dots and you've got the rest. Edited November 6, 2012 by muttley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musophilr Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='muttley' timestamp='1352222147' post='1860374'] The two are not mutually exclusive . IME, rhythm is harder to read than pitch/notes but you can always find a recording to help you. Take in a couple of phrases by ear first and you've got the rhythm and feel of the piece, then read the dots and you've got the rest. [/quote] That's the other thing - I find pitch far easier to read than rhythm. But tab users have to refer to the dots to get the rhythm anyway so they've cracked over half of the problem. What's wrong with learning the last & easier bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) I'm very much in favour of reading both bass and treble clefs, and could keep going on for hours on the advantages of being able to do so. Reading is just a fantastic tool. It's so quick that one can easily read 3 or 4 staves at a time. One look at sheet music and you'll know the style, many of the difficult parts and lots of other stuff. IMNSHO, tabs is condensed amateurism. [b]However[/b], my background of reading classical music has also limited me in ways. Here's where Leroybasslines a.o. comes in: [quote name='leroybasslines' timestamp='1352156634' post='1859598'] Also, I don't think that Western Classical notation suits a lot of music guys on here might be playing. If you write down some funk/soul lines, they look real complicated; if you learn them by ear they just make sense. Syncopation, ghost notes, etc just don't translate that well onto the page. But if you're playing straighter stuff it makes more sense.[/quote] One either writes the notes in such a way that classical readers can follow them, making it look complicated indeed, or one writes in simpler ways and the reader is assumed to know how to interpret this representation. IME the last way is customary in many circles. For many players, I feel that reading might become a hindrance, but since it's so powerful a tool, I'd say: [b]Learn to read, but learn to read the notes for the style you like. The investment is tiny when related to the advantages.[/b] It's late. I'm tired and rather lowkey after a stressful day. So I don't know if I make sense. Doubt it right now. Will look back tomorrow. best, bert Edited November 6, 2012 by BassTractor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) I'm all in favour of reading - a very useful skill for all the reasons already mentioned. But here's an additional thought: Learn a tune from TAB and you know how to play it one way on one instrument Learn a tune in terms of dots / note names and you know how to play it on any instrument that you play, but only in the written key Learn a tune in terms of intervals and degrees of the scale, and you can transpose it into any key on any instrument that you play Actually, it's not so much how you [i]learn[/i] the tune, but how you 'think' of it / remember it once learned. Edited November 7, 2012 by Earbrass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1352218663' post='1860300'] Hmmm... that ap is pretty good! [/quote] Yep, I agree. I use the Bass Clef app myself and find it an easy and dare I say 'fun' way to learn (it's actually quite addictive!). I don't think I'll ever have the time to put in enough hours to become fluent at sight reading, but as a complete amateur I do find learning the basics very useful. It helps me to communicate with other musicians on the rare occasions I get to jam with folks. And to some extent, it's helped me make sense of how to structure music - or at least understand why certain things fit together while others don't, etc. To me, learning notation is one of those things that has no downsides or disadvantages, only bonuses. Like learning a foreign language. It gives you more options than just shouting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 As usual here's my response to it, do what works best for you. My approach upsets quite a few people because it's "un-economic" / dumb but it works for me. I read pitch and positioning from tab and the rhythm from the notation. I can sight read in this way I CAN read pitch on score (just not as quickly and definitely not sight read) This works for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1352286353' post='1861014']I read pitch and positioning from tab and the rhythm from the notation....This works for me [/quote] ^ That actually makes sense to me. But then I'm not the best person to comment! If it works, it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodrox Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I find reading rhythm the trickiest some ties and rest s confuse me, I've got an app called rhythm sight reader which is good I don't listen to the example first but try to tap it out how I think it should sound from the notation but even so the metronome and the little coloured marks it makes to tell you if you hit early or late tend to give you little cues, I'm hoping its helping though I can apply some exercise uses probably to real phrases. Check it out its a good app I saw 3 more too when I searched the app store. It would be cool to be able to pick out melody lines when using lead sheets fake books as you would be able to play most stuff. I'm gonna keep at it. Oh another problem I'm having I can read notes on bass clef from lower f to higher b but then I see them with 2 3 or 4 leger lines above or below and I have to go ' if that's a c that's a d etc' Arghh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 [quote name='hollywoodrox' timestamp='1352332935' post='1861983'] I see them with 2 3 or 4 leger lines above or below and I have to go ' if that's a c that's a d etc' Arghh [/quote] You should see some violin parts. I often have to count! At least a lot of upper register bass lines are written [i]8va[/i] (an octave lower than played). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodrox Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 [quote name='muttley' timestamp='1352380119' post='1862316'] You should see some violin parts. I often have to count! At least a lot of upper register bass lines are written [i]8va[/i] (an octave lower than played). [/quote]man that sounds scary, I love classical violin in baroque styles like Bach, albinoni Vivaldi. I love the sound of harmonic minor scale too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 One day, maybe even in my life-time, one of these threads WILL actually be about a fantastic essential musical event in Reading (as in Berkshire) which we'd all be the poorer for missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Reading music. I love this divide of those who do and those who don't (along with associated reasons). Good job that we are not all the same otherwise this would be a boring forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushers Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 never wanted to learn to read music until recently, my daughter is sight reading after 5 or 6 months of lessons on piano and jeez does she pick up songs quick that way while im at the pc with tab that is probably wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seashell Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='mushers' timestamp='1352449836' post='1863092'] never wanted to learn to read music until recently, my daughter is sight reading after 5 or 6 months of lessons on piano and jeez does she pick up songs quick that way while im arrt the pc with tab that is probably wrong [/quote] Yes this is true, but at least you can get the tab off the PC. I'm finding it quite difficult to get the sheet music for the things I want to play, although I am willing and able to pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='seashell' timestamp='1352451535' post='1863122'] Yes this is true, but at least you can get the tab off the PC. I'm finding it quite difficult to get the sheet music for the things I want to play, although I am willing and able to pay for it. [/quote] That's why you use your ears too. In fact,one of the best things that you can do in this situation is transcribe. Your ears will improve because you will be actively listening and your reading will improve because you will be writing down the notes and rhythms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1352406492' post='1862757'] One day, maybe even in my life-time, one of these threads WILL actually be about a fantastic essential musical event in Reading (as in Berkshire) which we'd all be the poorer for missing. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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