PA Subs Build: Celestion vs Eminence

[VTypeV4]

As well as an in-house engineer, I'm a partner in a sound reinforcement company and I'm considerng building some new subs to further expand the larger rig.

Currently I'm using a pair of Peavey 118XT (1x18") and they sound great but they're somewhat over stressed for the power that they see so I'm considering building either four 1x15", two double 15s or possibly a pair of 2x18. They will be either a vented direct radiating design or a single tuned band-pass construction similar to that of the Ohm BR215/218.

Clearly without all the sizes, choosing a model and crunching all the numbers is beyond the discussion of ths thread.

I am considering a Celestion as the heart of the cabinet as they have always served me well for both bass guitar and PA applications. My Ashton rig runs Tru-vox 10s and 15s, all the Trace stuff over the years has been loaded with variants on the BG, K and BX range, the old Martin Audio PA rig ran with BX18s in the subs and even my rig at the Rigger runs 400w 15" BX series in the top-packs etc etc..

I have no problem with Eminence as they make an excellent speaker and I have used them also in many applications with no drama.

Does anyone have good reason for me not to use Celestion? The specs of the current FTR series seem to compare well with their american counter-parts and prices on eBay also seem fair. In all fairness, I'm somewhat out of touch with the current range of both companies but I would like to use Celestion as long as they're still a good product. I have aslo looked at offerings from JBL, Fane, Precision Devices and ElectroVoice. If I can buy British and its worth it, then I will.

I'm looking at a 600w minimum power handling as I have two Crown CE2000 in bridge-mono so I looking towards at least 1200w worth of speakers. I'm sure a little bit of over-powering and an unclipped amp that the drivers will be fine. Eventually the CE's will go and an 3600VZ or 5000VZ will go in thier place.

Any love for Celestion with their current line then?

[Phil Starr]

You kind of need to give more details, is price a factor? do you have a budget in mind? how about size and weight? some speakers are more suited to compact cabs than others.

One of the things you seriously need to look at is Xmax, basically how far the speakers can move before the coil exits the magnet. There are plenty of speakers out there (eminence and celestion amongst them) which will handle 600W of heat but only 100W of deep bass because they are excursion limited.

I haven't time tonight to look anything up but maybe you could give a few more details of what you are looking for.

[LawrenceH]

I have some of the Celestion NTRs and some of the Eminence Deltalites, roughly equivalent. Both are excellent. Bear in mind Celestion spec their Xmax value differently to Eminence so it's hard to compare directly. Eminence seem to worry less about a flat freq response than some other manufacturers which matters or not depending on how you're implementing crossovers.
Faital, an Italian brand, are also making some well regarded stuff at the moment which supposedly has excellent linearity at high spl

[bertbass]

Have a look here, http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/. Might surprise you.

[VTypeV4]

I'm not really finalised on any designs yet which is why I'm not really concerned about models and specifics just yet..

WIth regards to weight, I'm not really fussed as I'm expecting big subs to weigh a fair bit anyways. Saving a few kilos with neo magnets isn't that important. I think JBL, EV and PD were all quite expensive (inspite of being generally great products) but the Celestion range seem to be more in the Eminence bracket.

As for the x-over, it will be an active item. It'll give give me better control and efficiency especially with a 3 way system when I'm aligning a flat phase response..

And Bill's site is great, I've been on before but it's always interesting.

Cheers gents.

[thinman]

[quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1352197684' post='1859851']
Have a look here, [url="http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/."]http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/.[/url] Might surprise you.
[/quote]

+1 for Bill - I built a pair of T39 subs. Very efficient horn design - no need for shed loads of power to drive them - downside is that they're quite big. Bill has done all the design graft for you and lots of people are using them. He tends to use Eminence for his designs (he's US-based so probably cheaper over there) and does not advise you changing drivers models unless you can find a very close match on the specs as they are cabinet specific..

[VTypeV4]

I did design some band-pass subs for guy over on another audio forum around the 18" 4 ohm Peavey Black Widow SPS (as installed in my existing 118XTs). He has had excellent results with said enclosures but I want to move on from the Black Widow driver.

I ran the specs of the 1000w Celestion FTR through my software using the existing enclosure but it's a totally different unit and didn't perform anywhere near as well as the BW.

Think I'll do some number crunching with some double-eighteen enclosures in both vented direct-radiating and bandpass designs. I consider horns and scoops to be too bulky for mobile use. Gonna have a look at the Celestion site and see what they make these days..