Is a bare neck bad?

[redstriper]

I read this in another post from silddx:


[quote] i[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]nstrument wood needs protecting from moisture loss (and absorbtion), especially necks as they can become unstable and move around, depending on humidity and temperature.[/font][/color][/quote]

I have heard this before and it got me thinking (and worrying) about a couple of my basses.
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I have a '63 Fender Jazz bass that most of the neck lacquer has worn off - does this mean the neck is unstable and should be refinished?[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I also have a '90s silver series Squier Jazz bass that has no lacquer left on the neck because the previous owner stripped it off by over cleaning it - is this neck also unstable?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]What actually happens to the neck when it loses or absorbs moisture, in terms of stability and movement?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]What about a new relic or road worn instrument that has most of the neck lacq[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]uer missing?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Edit:[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Here's the original thread:[/font][/color]
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/189043-refinishing-a-jazz-neck-with-low-friction-what-to-use/page__fromsearch__1"][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/189043-refinishing-a-jazz-neck-with-low-friction-what-to-use/page__fromsearch__1[/font][/color][/url]

Edited November 6, 2012 by redstriper

[Leen2112]

All I know is Alex Lifeson of Rush always has his necks stripped of lacquer. But i guess he can replace his stuff anytime.

[EBS_freak]

Oh dear. Musicman owners are fckued then.

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1352219255' post='1860314']
..........

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I have a '63 Fender Jazz bass that most of the neck lacquer has worn off - does this mean the neck is unstable and should be refinished?[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I also have a '90s silver series Squier Jazz bass that has no lacquer left on the neck because the previous owner stripped it off by over cleaning it - is this neck also unstable?[/font][/color]
........

[/quote]

I dunno, are they unstable? You're in the best position to tell

The '63 probably has enough human oil and sweat to stop much more moisture getting in, the Squier probably less so. However the lacquer may have been sanded off but probably some sealer and lacquer have soaked into the wood and will probably protect it a fair bit.

And refinishing a '63 neck would seriously reduce it's value.


[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1352219562' post='1860322']
Oh dear. Musicman owners are fckued then.
[/quote]

I have an oil finished Stingray and I wouldn't exactly call it unstable, it'll hold it's tuning for a few gigs or sessions. But it needs regular tweaks to the truss rod to keep the action constant, much more so than any other bass I've owned. By contrast my Fenders get the odd tweak maybe twice a year at most, my Status Graphites have never needed adjusting since they left the factory however many years ago that was.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Fat Rich

[Dingus]

Theoretically, unfinished necks are ultimately more susceptible to moisture and changes in humidity ect. Laquering a neck is in effect like encasing it in a layer of plastic and so isolates it from moisture in tha air. In practise , the reality is that some necks and neck designs are inherently more stable than others, for a number of factors. I have had basses with laquered necks that shifted with changes in the weather like a barometer, and I have had unfinished necks that were completly stable. The fabrication of the neck - what kind of wood , if it is quartersawn, whether it has graphite reinforcement- and how well the wood is seasoned all play a major part in inherent stability , in addition to whether it is laquered or not. So yes, being unfinished can have an effect on stability but it is not neccesarily the decisive factor. I wouldn't worry too much about your existing basses- if the vintage Fender has lasted this long and is still o.k then there is no reason why it shouldn't continue and a worn in feel is a big part of these basses attraction. Similaly with the Squire, if it works o.k I wouldn't bother changing anything.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Dingus

[bremen]

For what it's worth, Warmoth say it's probably ok most of the time but they won't honour the warranty on a maple neck if it's not sealed.

[pietruszka]

I have a music man bass to, I've had 2 adjustments made on it in the 11 years I've had it. It's been great though I think I do need to get really thoroughly cleaned with some of that 0000 grade wool, as the neck isn't dirty as such, but it's a little darker in colour now and not as smooth as my Sandberg neck. It's not in a bad way, but it's had 11 years of playing on it, it's bound to pick up something.



Dan

[EBS_freak]

Also depends upon how high you have your action. You may not notice neck movement with a high action but you certainly will if you play with a fag paper action.

[ezbass]

If you were going continually from Florida to NY state (or other geographical extremes) then you might have problems with the vast changes in humidity, etc, it's not really going to be a problem here so much. However, when I stripped the neck of my MM SUB and Fender Roadworn P (both were too sticky for me) I did apply a couple of coats of Danish Oil which I then knocked back with 0000 steel wool just to be safe.

[redstriper]

Thanks for all the information and advice, I feel a lot less worried now.

I've had the '63 Jazz since 1978 and only adjusted the truss rod a couple of times to cope with string changes.
The neck doesn't seem to have moved at all, in that it plays and feels just the same as it always has.
There is some lacquer still on it in the places I don't play much ie. beyond the 7th fret and on the headstock.

I've only had the Squier for a couple of weeks, but I think the previous owner had it a long time.
There is virtually no lacquer at all on this one and it feels and looks very bare.
It doesn't bother me because it's nice to play and the neck is straight.
I adjusted the truss rod slightly when I fitted higher tension strings.

I do like quite a high action because I hate string buzz and rattle and I use heavy gauge flatwound strings.

I'm sure the old Fender is fine, but I'm still slightly concerned about the Squier.

Is there a protective oil that could be applied with a cloth while the neck is still attached to the body, because I hate removing necks?

[Dingus]

I know that EBMM recommend gun oil for their untreated necks, but how much protection it offers I am sceptical.

[pietruszka]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1352224997' post='1860439']
I know that EBMM recommend gun oil for their untreated necks, but how much protection it offers I am sceptical.
[/quote]
I don't think it would offer any protection otherwise the neck would be laquered surely? I would assume the oil is more to condition the neck, to treat it rather than protect it. I could be wrong! I do just play hem after all.


Dan

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1352219562' post='1860322']
Oh dear. Musicman owners are fckued then.
[/quote]

YEP!
I had a 94' ish Sterling that had been used a lot. It was really unstable, any knocks or weather changes would mean the truss rod needed a tweak.
Although not the end of the world and for me at least anyway I was fairly comfortable tweaking it, and always had my tools with me anyway in the gig bag to do it.

but my god is it annoying. It held it's tuning fairly well, didn't go out of tune during songs or gigs, but it was just another thing to check upon arrival of anywhere.

[Dingus]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1352225518' post='1860446']
I don't think it would offer any protection otherwise the neck would be laquered surely? I would assume the oil is more to condition the neck, to treat it rather than protect it. I could be wrong! I do just play hem after all.


Dan
[/quote]

I think you are right. I don't think an oil finish will seal the neck sufficiently from outside humidity ect. enough to make a difference.

[Musicman20]

I have 5 Musicman necks without lacquer.

Only one needed adjustment over the past 2 years. If you have bought one secondhand and it moves a lot, then it could be a number of factors depending on the previous owner.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1352227648' post='1860477']
I have 5 Musicman necks without lacquer.

Only one needed adjustment over the past 2 years. If you have bought one secondhand and it moves a lot, then it could be a number of factors depending on the previous owner.
[/quote]

How acutely do you monitor their movement? As EBS Freak quite rightly states, If you use a medium to high action then you are far less likely to notice any slight shifts in the relief of the neck, wheras if you are using a very low action , small shifts are far more noticable. My experience is that I wouldn't say that EBMM necks are neccesarilly unstable, but they are not notably stable either. On the whole, EBMM offer a lot of bass for the money, but one place where they have saved money on all their designs is neck fabrication. They do not offer graphite reinforcement or quartersawn necks, and so cannot offer the enhanced stability those materials offer on the best basses. It's another case of you get what you pay for, and if EBMM basses had better necks then they would cost more accordingly. All the EBMM necks I have encountered need regular adjustment.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Dingus

[gjones]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1352219255' post='1860314']
I read this in another post from silddx:




I have heard this before and it got me thinking (and worrying) about a couple of my basses.
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I have a '63 Fender Jazz bass that most of the neck lacquer has worn off - does this mean the neck is unstable and should be refinished?[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I also have a '90s silver series Squier Jazz bass that has no lacquer left on the neck because the previous owner stripped it off by over cleaning it - is this neck also unstable?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]What actually happens to the neck when it loses or absorbs moisture, in terms of stability and movement?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]What about a new relic or road worn instrument that has most of the neck lacq[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]uer missing?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Edit:[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Here's the original thread:[/font][/color]
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/189043-refinishing-a-jazz-neck-with-low-friction-what-to-use/page__fromsearch__1"][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/189043-refinishing-a-jazz-neck-with-low-friction-what-to-use/page__fromsearch__1[/font][/color][/url]
[/quote]

I don't know about a bare neck making your neck unstable but it will pick up a lot of dirt that may be difficult to remove. I wouldn't worry about removing the neck on your basses. I've done it a many times with much more temperamental necks (Geddy Lees) without any hassle. I've used linseed oil before, with good results. The trick is to use it sparingly.

[lettsguitars]

Necks actually do not require any finish theoretically. The natural oils from the hand will seal a well played neck and I would advise never refinishing/oiling even a natural neck as finish can build up and slow it down.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1352228607' post='1860496']
How acutely do you monitor their movement? As EBS Freak quite rightly states, If you use a medium to high action then you are far less likely to notice any slight shifts in the relief of the neck, wheras if you are using a very low action , small shifts are far more noticable. My experience is that I wouldn't say that EBMM necks are neccesarilly unstable, but they are not notably stable either. On the whole, EBMM offer a lot of bass for the money, but one place where they have saved money on all their designs is neck fabrication. They do not offer graphite reinforcement or quartersawn necks, and so cannot offer the enhanced stability those materials offer on the best basses. It's another case of you get what you pay for, and if EBMM basses had better necks then they would cost more accordingly. All the EBMM necks I have encountered need regular adjustment.
[/quote]

If I might add as an addendum to this post that I have noticed no difference in stability between my unfinished Reflex bass' neck and the finished neck on a Bongo. They both require occasional attention., but not excessively so. Both of them, however, are far more stable than the heavily laquered pre-EBMM Stingray I used to own many years ago that had a neck that was so badly behaved that I began to suspect that it had ADHD.

[TRBboy]

Even so called "un-finished" necks will have had some sort of treatment, even if it's just a sanding sealer or a bit of oil. Oil will protect the neck pretty well and will keep virtually all moisture out, but will allow the wood to breathe more than laquer which I think is probably a good thing. You get woodwork on houses (or other outdoor applications) which is treated with things like Danish Oil to withstand the elements but let the timber breathe, and it works a treat. The only thing with oil is that it will need reapplying periodically.

I'm confident your basses will be fine. I wouldn't touch the '63, but if you want to do something to the Squier I would either oil it or buy a spray can of polyurethane laquer.

Would I strip the laquer off a neck? Never if I could help it! I don't like a glossy, sticky neck, so my trick is to give it a light but even rub down with 1200 grit paper. I'm not aiming to remove laquer, just lightly abrade the surface, and it gives a lovely silky smooth feel.

I used to be a carpenter.

[drTStingray]

I have two basses with oil and wax finish necks - like Musicman 20 I've never really had to adjust the necks - one is a Stingray 5 I've had for nearly 10 yrs. Recently it sat in its case for about 6 months in a range of temperatures and I decided to use it for a gig - not only did the neck not need adjusting, it was still in tune!!!

Musicman would not sell them if they were unreliable as they would lose money on warranty repairs - it would be a simple task to change the arrangement but I'm guessing it's one of the selling points for a lot of people as it improves playability, which is why they don't!

I have a fretless Stingray on which I keep the action very low. It requires a slight tweak at the beginning and end of the winter - oh and it has a laquered neck! It also looks quarter sawn.

I personally would have no problem recommending Musicman style necks to other bassists or buying more myself - they are silky smooth to play and very fast - I think the modern Fenders I've played have a similar, if not the same arrangement? The difference with the Musicman bass is the truss rod is a doddle to tweak in comparison.

I doubt your basses have any problem caused by loss of neck finish.

[Musicman20]

I have my action about 'medium'.

The good thing with Musicman necks is the feel and the easy adjustability. Truss rod wheel = excellent addition. Can't be bothered to adjust Fenders as it involves messing about.

I wouldn't say the necks are any kind of low budget...it costs very little to finish a neck in laquer. That's just how Musicman do it...oil finish. It feels natural to me...I like it.

[stingrayPete1977]

I dont like a gloss neck anymore even my '79 pre EB has had the 1200 grit paper run over it A sh*t gloss neck is still a sh*t neck, the varnish wont solve that. The MM wheel of fortune takes me less than a minute to adjust and has only needed doing twice a year on all my Rays, not a massive issue TBF

[Dingus]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1352234799' post='1860616']
I have my action about 'medium'.

The good thing with Musicman necks is the feel and the easy adjustability. Truss rod wheel = excellent addition. Can't be bothered to adjust Fenders as it involves messing about.

I wouldn't say the necks are any kind of low budget...it costs very little to finish a neck in laquer. That's just how Musicman do it...oil finish. It feels natural to me...I like it.
[/quote]

An oil /satin finish is almost mandatory for most bass makers nowadays because that is what most customers want to buy. Most bass necks need regular adjustment, it's just a fact of life. EBMM necks are just straightforward flatsawn maple with no additional stiffening, and the wood is kiln dried rather than the more preferable ( and expensive) air dried timber used on more upmarket basses.That is not neccesarilly low budget as such, but it is cheaper to manufacture than a reinforced neck , and more prone to deadspots and changes in climate The quality of EBMM necks is pretty acceptable for mass produced mid-priced basses , but If EBMM basses had quartersawn graphite reinforced necks then I could pretty much guarantee that it would enhance the sound and performance of these basses . The flipiside however is that it would put the cost up towards custom /boutique prices.

[Kongo]

I have a 1998 Yamaha TRB6II who's original owner got the finish on the neck sanded off. I think the guy said he oiled or waxed it...can't remember.
Well I've been using it for 4 years now and I've never touched it. No issues here. It hasn't blackened or started to rot and the neck never moves even this time of year.
I imagine it'd be wise to oil the neck or something but I gotta say I love the feel of a non-lacquered neck...and I HATE painted necks also!