Fake Rickies

[pete.young]

mickthebass,

I'm sorry that someone tried to rip you off, and I'd like to think that most people who post on this forum would unreservedly condemn that aspect of cloning and faking. It's good that you got your money back but I can see how such an experience would colour your view.

The RIckenbacker clones thing is slightly different, in particular those clones which were made 35-40 years ago, and whose existence represents no threat to the financial well-being of the Rickenbacker company or CEO. Although I understand that he needs to be seen to be protecting his trademarks, the way he's going about it and his enthusiasm for the task hasn't particularly endeared him to some punters here, or strengthened his moral argument.

I'll reserve my condemnation for people trying to pass off things as something they're not.

What can we do to make sure of what we're buying? I don't know the answer: it's hard to trust anyone, even some dealers, so all one can do is to try and develop an eye for detail, learn what makes a genuine article, and perhaps get a knowledgeable second opinion, maybe from someone on this forum. There are many knowledgeable and helpful people here. It shouldn't be necessary, but it is.

As far as Shine are concerned, they're from a culture where there is no copyright, so I can understand why they don't believe they're doing anything wrong.

[mickthebass]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1352468622' post='1863469']
Replacing all of the stuff on a Squier with US stuff and all the other work and time would make it cost more than buying a Fender for a dealer. And probably make an as good or better instrument.

As for the Ricks on ebay, depends if you think over a grand is easy to come by.
[/quote]sorry I don't understand your logic squiers at trade like argos used to buy them were 75 quid and a u.s.a. bass costs 750 quid plus that is a pretty good markup, the labour was minimal cause they only worked on them when the were not tending the plants!

[Mr. Foxen]

Tuners, bridge, truss nut, wiring and electronics, scratchplate, all expensive parts, and you can't buy them from Fender because they'd twig what you are up to. Complete rebuild of a bass is skilled labour time. To get a decal that isn't a dead giveaway you need finishing facilities.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1352468622' post='1863469']
Replacing all of the stuff on a Squier with US stuff and all the other work and time would make it cost more than buying a Fender for a dealer. And probably make an as good or better instrument.
[/quote]

indeed, it all sounds a bit "strange", many dimensions are also not identical between Squiers and Fenders making replacements hard to fit nicely, which will leave obvious marks...
If I wanted to make good fakes, so good that they can pass for US Fenders... I'd probably be better off sourcing parts elsewhere, not buying Squiers to transform etc,
I don't know. Colour me sceptical.

[gjones]

It would be very easy for an unscrupulous dealer to arrange fake Fenders to be built to his specification in a factory in China. Then import them and fit Fender decals etc when they get to the UK. The quality would probably be very good, as they already make Fender branded basses and guitars in chinese factories (not just Squiers anymore).

[Musky]

When exactly was this? I'm getting the impression it was quite a while ago.

Is this Music Ground we're talking about here? It's well documented they were involved in some dubious practices.

[mcnach]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1352564591' post='1864685']
It would be very easy for an unscrupulous dealer to arrange fake Fenders to be built to his specification in a factory in China. Then import them and fit Fender decals etc when they get to the UK. The quality would probably be very good, as they already make Fender branded basses and guitars in chinese factories (not just Squiers anymore).
[/quote]

he could probably get the decals installed at the factory, actually... See TradeTang and similar websites for examples...

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1352572052' post='1864798']
When exactly was this? I'm getting the impression it was quite a while ago.

Is this Music Ground we're talking about here? It's well documented they were involved in some dubious practices.
[/quote]

Vintage stuff is more their thing. 'Restoring' serial numbered necks and bodies on to original sets of scratchplate screws.

[mickthebass]

To sort this matter out once and for all I will see if my contact at Sky who included the sting in one of their late night real life police chase things can get a copy of the programme to put on utube for us all to see. These serious criminals were using sale of counterfeits of all sorts of musical instruments, ipods, watches, perfume, tee shirts, trainers, etc some sold from the shop, some sold on auction sites, some through grifters with hard luck stories in pubs, etc some to money lenders shops, all to launder money from the sale of some sort of medicine, called the Herb of Jha, that they grew in a hidden hydroponics at the other end of the factory units, in one of the units they even posed as a branch of an internet service provider, had hundreds of fake internet server racks to explain why they used so much electricity. These were some serious hard men involved in a wide range of dubious enterprises. They brought Vietnamese illegals over here just to be gardeners.

[Mr. Foxen]

They can convert Squiers to ipods? Skills. More skills than using dubious goods to launder dubious money, since that defeats all of the point of laundering money.

[Wolverinebass]

None of this makes any sense. Did the Vietnamese gardeners sell you the fake bass? Did you get any "herb of Zarg" to try as recompense? Was there free wireless broadband in the shop you tried it in? It's all getting a bit far fetched for me.

[Nibody]

[tauzero]

[quote name='mickthebass' timestamp='1352310837' post='1861483']
[color=#000000]Talk about fake rickies take a look at this lot, we’d better tell the CEO about this it on evilbay Item number 230878499400 what a hoot. “Sound Cartel” wah whatever next. [/color]


[font=Times New Roman][size=3][color=#000000][attachment=123008:shine.jpg][/color][/size][/font]
[/quote]

It doesn't (from what I can gather from what's been posted on the subject by Those Who Know) infringe Rickenbacker's trademarks, as those are the headstock and Rickenbacker logo.

As far as the general attitude to fakes is on here, read through a few of the threads on fake Fenders. There's quite a few members who know enough to be able to spot fakes (as in instruments where the seller is attempting to pass them off as Fenders, not just instruments that look like Fenders) and who will then report them to Ebay.

There is also a degree of antipathy to RIC's extremely zealous trademark protection, which quite possibly goes beyond what they are entitled to do if what has been communicated about trademarks is the case and the whole case, as they pursue sellers who are selling instruments which they specifically state are copies, hence not attempting to pass them off as Rics at all.

[mickthebass]

[size=3][font="Trebuchet MS"][color="#000000"]Have a look at this Fender precision U.S.A. genuine 1978 bass guitar on eBay lot number 181019270838 it has no through body stringing, has no half moon on the pick guard to adjust truss rod and also so looks a lot like the one I got conned with in the midlands but I’ve been wrong before.[/color][/font][/size]
[color="#000000"]Mike [/color]

[Mr. Foxen]

Pickguard looks kinda wrong style, but could had been replaced with the along with the EMGs, not sure how good a fit they are to standard guard. Fairly sure 78 predates the through body stringing on US ones.

[Musky]

Yeah, Fenders from that period had neither through body stringing nor tort pickguards, so the 'guard has been changed. Other than that it looks to be exactly what he says it is, although the pictures don't really show some of the details well enough to know if other parts might have been changed. I'd want to see pictures with the guard off as well, but alarm bells aren't ringing.

[mickthebass]

[b]
[size=3][color="#000000"][font="Trebuchet MS"]My Fender Mustang bass short scale which is older than 1977 has through body stringing, so did the fiesta red precision I bought in 1971 second hand now long gone, had it also.[/font][/color][/size][/b]

[mcnach]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1353031343' post='1870846']
Pickguard looks kinda wrong style, but could had been replaced with the along with the EMGs, not sure how good a fit they are to standard guard. Fairly sure 78 predates the through body stringing on US ones.
[/quote]

and isn't the truss rod adjustment at the headstock on that one anyway?

at any rate, I'm not sure how anyobne can conclude much from such picture. It bareley says anything other than... it's a reddish stratocaster. Can't even see the logo.

Edited November 16, 2012 by mcnach

[guybrush threepwood]

[quote name='mickthebass' timestamp='1353061704' post='1871055']
[b] [size=3][color=#000000][font=Trebuchet MS]My Fender Mustang bass short scale which is older than 1977 has through body stringing, so did the fiesta red precision I bought in 1971 second hand now long gone, had it also.[/font][/color][/size][/b]
[/quote]
The original Mustang basses did have string-through. What sort of P bass was it?...

Edited November 16, 2012 by guybrush threepwood

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1353068267' post='1871166']
and isn't the truss rod adjustment at the headstock on that one anyway?

at any rate, I'm not sure how anyobne can conclude much from such picture. It bareley says anything other than... it's a reddish stratocaster. Can't even see the logo.
[/quote]

Strat is sig pic, the link is a P bass: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/fender-precision-usa-genuine-1978-bass-guitar-/181019270838

Edited November 16, 2012 by Mr. Foxen

[mcnach]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1353082409' post='1871473']
Strat is sig pic, the link is a P bass: [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/fender-precision-usa-genuine-1978-bass-guitar-/181019270838"]http://www.ebay.co.u...r-/181019270838[/url]
[/quote]


no wonder I was confused!!!

[Beedster]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1353083105' post='1871489']
no wonder I was confused!!!
[/quote]

I'm finding this whole thread a little confusing, think I need a lie down

[guybrush threepwood]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1353083709' post='1871496']
I'm finding this whole thread a little confusing, think I need a lie down
[/quote]
It'll be all the different fonts.

[Musky]

[quote name='mickthebass' timestamp='1353061704' post='1871055']

[b] [size=3][color=#000000][font=Trebuchet MS]My Fender Mustang bass short scale which is older than 1977 has through body stringing, so did the fiesta red precision I bought in 1971 second hand now long gone, had it also.[/font][/color][/size][/b]
[/quote]
[i]Precisions[/i] from that period (i.e. the 70's) didn't have through stringing. The original single coil Precisions did have through stringing, so your fiesta red one would have been one of those or more likely it had been modified. Odd Fenders turn up from time to time, but I've never heard of a P Bass from back then leaving the factory with through stringing. Any info you can contribute is always welcome though.

[mickthebass]

[size=4][color=#000000][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][quote name='Musky' timestamp='1353093323' post='1871659'] [i]Precisions[/i] from that period (i.e. the 70's) didn't have through stringing. The original single coil Precisions did have through stringing, so your fiesta red one would have been one of those or more likely it had been modified. Odd Fenders turn up from time to time, but I've never heard of a P Bass from back then leaving the factory with through stringing. Any info you can contribute is always welcome though. [/quote][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]If only I'd thought that to finish a discusion in 30 years time to take some detailed photos oh! it also had a strap butten on the rear of the head below the tuners.[/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Still we have established once and for all that through body stringing is not a way to tell the difference between a U.S.A., a Mexican, a Japanese or a squire, Precision style fender bass? Have we?[/font][/color][/size]