am i so cynical..?

[Skol303]

Pop music is, by definition, popular. It might not be refined, challenging, emotionally charged, a statement of our times, or just plain 'good' as many of us here might define it. But it's popular. Go argue with that if you like - many have - but that's the long and the short of it.

Personally I like to keep my ears open. I like pop music. I even like the X Factor; well some of it. But I also like Aphex Twin, and Motorhead, and Dub Sydicate, and Benga, and No Means No, and Half Man Half Biscuit… and a bunch of other bands from all kinds of genres that other people might find difficult to enjoy.

I'm also pushing 40 and have vowed never to utter the words "music isn't what it used to be"! Because it's not just the music that's changing, it's us as we get older. And it pays to be wise to that

[Norris]

I make a point to avoid shows of that ilk. Britain's got X-factor, strictly come auditioning for Lloyd-Webber, etc.

I have heard of people being rejected at the initial auditions because they haven't got an interesting 'back story'. What do I care? As others have posted, they are entertainment shows, not music shows. The only music show of note at the moment is Later... - and that has some pretty ropey performers a lot of the time. TV has not been interested in music since TOTP was dropped - which is a shame, as despite being generally crap it was all fodder for the much more entertaining TOTP2 shows.

Bring back the Old Grey Whistle Test!

[BigRedX]

Music was never what it used to be. Look at any so-called classic year of music and you'll find that there was far more stuff around that you didn't like than stuff you did. Rose-tinted specs are a wonderful thing!

TBH music has never been as vibrant and diverse as it is now. At least if you don't like what's currently being hyped by the media there is plenty of new bands around playing music you will like what ever genre(s) you are in to.

[Skol303]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1352724290' post='1866495']
TBH music has never been as vibrant and diverse as it is now. At least if you don't like what's currently being hyped by the media there is plenty of new bands around playing music you will like what ever genre(s) you are in to.
[/quote]

^ This! Spot on.

[Norris]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1352691747' post='1866220']
...Louis Walsh doesnt care about musical integrity ...he and mr Cowell care about making lots of money
[/quote]
Nail, meet head

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1352724270' post='1866494']

Bring back the Old Grey Whistle Test!
[/quote]

Definitely this.

[Dingus]

Why not compromise and have Bob Harris present The X - Factor ?

[flyfisher]

Actually, OGWT could be a more frustrating programme than X-factor in my experience. At least with X-factor I know I won't like any of it so I don't waste any of my time watching it. OGWT, on the other hand, was such an eclectic mix that it was a 'must watch' for all the gems I knew it would contain, although it meant I also had to sit through some complete dross (IMHO of course) as well. And no VCRs back then for fast-forwarding through the dross!

That's not to say I wouldn't like to see it return though!

Edited November 12, 2012 by flyfisher

[Roger Evans]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1352669704' post='1865990']
Surely she's not that bad ...?
[/quote]

ha ha! No but it probably works the other way :-)

[KingBollock]

Even if it could be true that no good music, or music that you would like, is made anymore, I still don't see a real problem. I would still have all the music I do like, no one is ever going to be able to take that away from me, and I bet I could spend the rest of my life finding music that I would like that has already been made but I just haven't found yet. And there [i]is[/i] still good music being made, no matter what genre you are into, and with the internet it is easier than ever to find, we don't need the telly or even the radio, to find new music.

[Doddy]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1352691747' post='1866220']
sure money is the driving force behind every band ive ever listened to but when it takes over to the point that its all that really matters, its different.. Louis Walsh doesnt care about musical integrity, and his boy bands are his puppets.. he and mr Cowell care about making lots of money, and from that they have done very well.. Berry Gordy or Quincy Jones were the polar opposite to these clowns...
[/quote]
Honestly,I don't think that Berry Gordy is the polar opposite of Cowell. There were some great Motown songs,as we all
know,but there are a hell of a lot of songs (possibly the majority?) that are just as dodgy as the music that Cowell puts
out. Gordy was about making money-that's why he started using some of the hit songs again with other artists and
eventually moved Motown to LA.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1352776982' post='1867351']
Honestly,I don't think that Berry Gordy is the polar opposite of Cowell. There were some great Motown songs,as we all
know,but there are a hell of a lot of songs (possibly the majority?) that are just as dodgy as the music that Cowell puts
out. Gordy was about making money-that's why he started using some of the hit songs again with other artists and
eventually moved Motown to LA.
[/quote]

This. "Twistin' Postman" by the Marvelettes is a classic example IMO.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1352776982' post='1867351']
Honestly,I don't think that Berry Gordy is the polar opposite of Cowell. There were some great Motown songs,as we all
know,but there are a hell of a lot of songs (possibly the majority?) that are just as dodgy as the music that Cowell puts
out. Gordy was about making money-that's why he started using some of the hit songs again with other artists and
eventually moved Motown to LA.
[/quote]

Absolutely. Motown was as much a 'music factory' as Stock, Aitken & Waterman or the Cowell machine. Money was/is the prime concern.

T'was ever thus, t'will ever be.

[StephenFerguson]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1352724290' post='1866495']
Music was never what it used to be. Look at any so-called classic year of music and you'll find that there was far more stuff around that you didn't like than stuff you did. Rose-tinted specs are a wonderful thing!

TBH music has never been as vibrant and diverse as it is now. At least if you don't like what's currently being hyped by the media there is plenty of new bands around playing music you will like what ever genre(s) you are in to.
[/quote]

I ranted a bit earlier but this was exactly my point, the good music is the music that sticks in the memory and, usualy, outlasts the dross.

[blamelouis]

I agree with Sting ......

Rock star Sting has called the X Factor "televised karaoke" and said judges like Simon Cowell have "no recognisable talent apart from self-promotion".
The singer, 58, told London's Evening Standard that the Saturday night show was "a soap opera which has nothing to do with music".
He added: "I am sorry but none of those kids are going to go anywhere, and I say that sadly."
Sting rose to fame with The Police, but has also had a successful solo career.
With albums like Ten Summoner's Tales and Nothing Like The Sun, he has notched up 11 Grammys, two Brits, a Golden Globe, an Emmy and three Oscar nominations.
The Police, who recently reformed and performed a sell-out world tour, scooped five Grammy awards when they were together.
'Appalling'
Sting said the singers who participate in the X Factor, created by Cowell in 2004, were "humiliated when they get sent off".
He added: "How appalling for a young person to feel that rejection. It is a soap opera which has nothing to do with music.

"In fact, it has put music back decades. Television is very cynical."
The singer, whose Fields Of Gold is a staple of talent show auditions, went on to say that X Factor encouraged contestants to "conform to stereotypes".
He added: "They are either Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston or Boyzone and are not encouraged to create any real unique signature or fingerprint.
"That cannot come from TV. The X Factor is a preposterous show and you have judges who have no recognisable talent apart from self-promotion, advising them what to wear and how to look. It is appalling.
"The real shop floor for musical talent is pubs and clubs, that is where the original work is. But they are being closed down on a daily basis. It is impossible to put an act on in a pub.
"The music industry has been hugely important to England, bringing in millions. If anyone thinks the X Factor is going to do that, they are wrong."
A spokesperson for the X Factor declined to comment on Sting's interview, saying he was entitled to his opinion.

[gub]

The thing that gets me is, it's so obviously scripted , arguments etc !! Then it's in the papers the next day about Gary saying she he horse teeth and fag breath etc. so on , you know what , really can't be arsed to go on about this f***ing sh*t !

Edited November 13, 2012 by gub

[Blackbird88]

[quote name='blamelouis' timestamp='1352844724' post='1868433']
I agree with Sting ......

Rock star Sting has called the X Factor "televised karaoke" and said judges like Simon Cowell have "no recognisable talent apart from self-promotion".
The singer, 58, told London's Evening Standard that the Saturday night show was "a soap opera which has nothing to do with music".
He added: "I am sorry but none of those kids are going to go anywhere, and I say that sadly."
Sting rose to fame with The Police, but has also had a successful solo career.
With albums like Ten Summoner's Tales and Nothing Like The Sun, he has notched up 11 Grammys, two Brits, a Golden Globe, an Emmy and three Oscar nominations.
The Police, who recently reformed and performed a sell-out world tour, scooped five Grammy awards when they were together.
'Appalling'
Sting said the singers who participate in the X Factor, created by Cowell in 2004, were "humiliated when they get sent off".
He added: "How appalling for a young person to feel that rejection. It is a soap opera which has nothing to do with music.

"In fact, it has put music back decades. Television is very cynical."
The singer, whose Fields Of Gold is a staple of talent show auditions, went on to say that X Factor encouraged contestants to "conform to stereotypes".
He added: "They are either Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston or Boyzone and are not encouraged to create any real unique signature or fingerprint.
"That cannot come from TV. The X Factor is a preposterous show and you have judges who have no recognisable talent apart from self-promotion, advising them what to wear and how to look. It is appalling.
"The real shop floor for musical talent is pubs and clubs, that is where the original work is. But they are being closed down on a daily basis. It is impossible to put an act on in a pub.
"The music industry has been hugely important to England, bringing in millions. If anyone thinks the X Factor is going to do that, they are wrong."
A spokesperson for the X Factor declined to comment on Sting's interview, saying he was entitled to his opinion.
[/quote]

Sounds pretty spot on to me, except for the bit where they called him a singer. He's a bass player goddamnit.

[Doddy]

[quote name='blamelouis' timestamp='1352844724' post='1868433']
The singer, whose Fields Of Gold is a staple of talent show auditions, went on to say that X Factor encouraged contestants to "conform to stereotypes".
[/quote]
I'm sure he's not complaining when the royalty cheques are rolling in.

[keving]

I'm in two minds about X Factor, on the one hand it is only a step removed from Karaoke, but on the other they have been known to perform some great songs. Songs that my kids have now been introduced to and enjoy in a way that they wouldn't had their crusty old dad said 'Hey, have a listen to this great song that was written before you were born'

[flyfisher]

I agree with Sting as well, but what's the point of such a rant? The X-factor spokesman is correct - it's just an opinion.

Now, if he had suggested a better alternative . . .

[Skol303]

I wonder when Sting last went to see a band in a pub?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1352888995' post='1868776']
I wonder when Sting last went to see a band in a pub?
[/quote]

Would it be feasible for someone as famous as Sting to go to a pub gig?

Having said that, some years ago I attended a small gig at the Islington Academy Bar where several well-known musicians including Nick Beggs and James Dean Bradfield were apparently in the audience. I didn't notice any of them.

[martin8708]

The X factor is first and foremost a TV show , just like Blind Date , Jeremy Kyle and Top Gear .
If you don't like what's on the telly , use the remote and watch something else .

I don't really think Simon Cowell is wholly responsible for all the poor quality / bland music that is out there at the moment .
Like wise , there are some great new musicians that make the big time purely on their talent and hard work .They will probably have a far greater longevity than any of the Cowell artists .

I still think that Susan Boyles first audition is one of TV's great moments , where she shoves everybody's preconceptions right up their backsides and make the judges eat humble pie . Pure TV gold.
Sorry I'm not technical enough the post the YouTube link.