Kongo Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 It's a distraction, it keeps the easily entertained masses just that and makes them dream that they too could get on the TV and all will be good. But it's the stuff behind the scenes they don't know. Not everyone gets to be in front of that panel, there's a massive filtering system beforehand. They know what they want, a quick mass sale and that's it, back to your job in Tesco or wherever, feeling done in the backside and your dream was just a fleeting memory. Sad but true. I absolutely hate it, but that's because there's a world of music out there and yet all I hear is how great some X-factor contestant is. But then you stop and think, if this is what they want to believe, if this is what they want to dream and think as the ideal lifestyle, let them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='he man812' timestamp='1352678468' post='1866146'] He's right TIM, they are top bands [/quote] Yes, but he's missed Adam and the Ants, Tenpole Tudor, Toyah.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 .... and guess what. All those number 1s Stock Aitken and Waterman produced were covers of 50s and 60s tunes. Nothing changes. There will always be x-factor or opportunity knocks or whatever, there will always be original material of dubious quality, and there will always be tunes that stand the test of time. Time only, will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 yes your right Kongo.. but my problem is that the good stuff is being pushed under the surface... the younger generation should have great music as the norm, just like i was shown when i was watching tv as a youngster... top of the pops had bands like madonna, thompson twins, the smiths.. ok there was some sh*te, but knowhere near as much as there is now......, people like mr cowell with his very popular tv program are teaching kids that this is the acceptable face of music... and its total rubbish with no substance....some people might not care, but i do because im passionate about music as an art form... just like any other form of art, quality should be the norm.. popular music is for the masses, but its being watered down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1352655843' post='1865690'] The X Factor is entertainment TV in my view - and good entertainment at that - but not really anything to do with music. Dispel the music-myth, and it then becomes a good way to while away a couple of hours on a Saturday night. [/quote] Plus one. The past 2-3 years I've decided to forget about taking music so seriously. Some of it is there just to be plain fun. Eg ill quite happily listen to modern pop and enjoy it...especially if its fun to get you energetic for exercising. Then ill listen to a good band and take it more seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='he man812' timestamp='1352677073' post='1866106'] I don't think all hope was lost by the 80s. There's a lot i like from that era but i definitely think it got worse from there on, with more good music sinking into the background. Particularly with the rise of god damn celebrity musicians. Even Micheal Jackson for example, although he made good music he was more famous for what he did rather than what he played. And now as a result of that we have people who are famous just for being famous. Celebrities definitely play a big part in what I think is wrong with this world [/quote] I think there's a lot in that 'famous for being famous' thing. Once that takes over, their fans will buy anything they put out simply because it's them doing it.. But isn't that just a 'youngster' thing? You know, the way everyone 'rebels' and 'does their own thing' by wearing denim jeans, or whatever the latest fashion happens to be? It's that peer-pressure/cult thing. Then, as people grow up and become more confident in themselves they become less concerned about peer approval and start to make their own choices, at which point a much bigger world of music (or whatever) opens up before them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1352679360' post='1866157'] but my problem is that the good stuff is being pushed under the surface... the younger generation should have great music as the norm, just like i was shown when i was watching tv as a youngster... [/quote] It depends on what you are calling 'the good stuff'. Over the last few years there have been some really good pop tunes that get a lot of airplay.People like Beyonce,Usher,Rhianna,Robbie/Take That,Lady Gaga,Justin Timberlake,Christina Aguilera and a whole load more have done some really good stuff. Personally,I'd rather listen to most of them than 98% of the 'credible' bands that appear on shows like 'Later....'. I don't watch X Factor,and most of what I've heard that has come from the show I'm not a fan of,although there is the odd good tune there. 'The younger generation should have great music as the norm'? I think pretty much everyone starts off by listening to current pop music and eventually begin branch out and find their own idea of what is 'great music'-whether it's by going to gigs with their friends or searching through their parents record collection or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodrox Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I love 80s music. Motley Crüe,ratt, wasp,poison,Cinderella,def leppard,great white,dokken,Bon jovi,warrant,megadeath,autograph, Metallica guns n roses , la guns , racer x,Europe plus all the classic 70, bands who did great 80s records like kiss foreigner y&t. Alice cooper Aerosmith. We now have bands inspired by these 80s greats like reckless love, crash diet, hardcore superstar , crazy lixx white widdow etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 What's all this 'good stuff' and 'bad stuff'? There is no 'good' stuff, or 'bad' stuff, only stuff you like or dislike. There's certainly 'popular' stuff, which can be defined by measurement, but it's an unreliable guide to whether you'll actually like it or not. Just enjoy the stuff you do like and all will be well with your world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 im thinking that younger people grow up and make there own minds up as to what they find interesting as i did... i very much hope that music production in the future isnt governed by the want of fame, and easy ways of making music for that reason... all of us on this forum work hard to play bass because we want to make good music .. nothing of real substance comes from something that you dont have to work hard to get.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1352682003' post='1866187'] What's all this 'good stuff' and 'bad stuff'? There is no 'good' stuff, or 'bad' stuff, only stuff you like or dislike. There's certainly 'popular' stuff, which can be defined by measurement, but it's an unreliable guide to whether you'll actually like it or not. Just enjoy the stuff you do like and all will be well with your world. [/quote]yep its all subjective... beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but i dont think that can be a rule for music always..... there can be music that is maybe not as good quality as some others, or as interesting, compelling, inspiring... Edited November 12, 2012 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1352682772' post='1866191'] yep its all subjective... beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but i dont think that can be a rule for music always..... there can be music that is maybe not as good quality as some others, or as interesting, compelling, inspiring... [/quote] But again,the quality or how interesting etc is again down to the individual. I can guarantee that there is music that I find compelling and inspiring that others don't. Likewise,I often hear about people raving over bands that bore me to death after a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1352683884' post='1866196'] But again,the quality or how interesting etc is again down to the individual. I can guarantee that there is music that I find compelling and inspiring that others don't. Likewise,I often hear about people raving over bands that bore me to death after a minute. [/quote]ok... im walking a fine line here as i dont want to come across as unfair or a snob when it comes to mine,or any individuals musical taste..... a band such as JLS, or Girls aloud are, in there entity bands that make pop records governed by money... ..music like this is my the point of my OP..... is the quality of there music going to inspire younger people... yes they prob will.. will it inspire them to create music that is going to break new musical ground,or create something special... i dont think it will... im aware that these bands are all a bit of fun, but when said bands are pushed in the face of young people.... i think its a detriment to music in the future.. money is the worst thing that ever happened to music, but i guess thats the nature of the beast.... Edited November 12, 2012 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1352686326' post='1866209'] ok... im walking a fine line here as i dont want to come across as unfair or a snob when it comes to mine,or any individuals musical taste..... a band such as JLS, or Girls aloud are, in there entity bands that make pop records governed by money... ..music like this is my the point of my OP..... is the quality of there music going to inspire younger people... yes they prob will.. will it inspire them to create music that is going to break new musical ground, i dont think it will... im aware that these bands are all a bit of fun, but when said bands are pushed in the face of young people.. i think its a detriment to music in the future.. money is the worst thing that ever happened to music, but i guess thats the nature of the beast [/quote] As much as you or I may dislike some of these pop acts,I think it's entirely possible that these groups will inspire people to create new music-just maybe not directly. Some kid might be listening to Girls Aloud (who have had some good pop songs),and going to their concerts and it starts their interest in Music,or they may watch the X Factor and hear one of the contestants sing a song,search for it on Youtube,discover the original and get a whole new inspiration. Also,let's be honest about this,name me one band/artist that is getting airplay and album releases that isn't governed by money? Sure there are people who are doing it themselves,but all of the 'big' names from the past god-knows how many years have had a lot of money behind them and are expected to turn in a profit for their labels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenFerguson Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Bah, its always been sh*te ever since a buck could be made from it! And people talk about the charts having predominantly rock acts as a era justification ie 70's child "we had zeplin and Sabbath in the charts, look at the crap now'......true but you also had Abba, the osmonds, the singing postman etc (and mud, fvcking mud)! He will then go on to state that the way the industry developed this will never happen again......except it did.....the sh*te hair rock in the 80's coupled with the woeful yuppie pop pissed of people and led to them forming bands like black flag, mudhoney, pixies, my bloody valentine, bauhause, rem, birthday party etc etc...the public (General, singles buying) caught on eventually when bands who listened to the afore mentiond bands released albums like nevermind, Pablo honey, the green album and hey ho rock did dominate the charts for a while. Remember the early to mid naughties? It was only 9 to 6 years ago when the strokes, white stripes, libertines, yeah yeah yeahs, kaisers, razorlight (good riddance) dominated the charts. Pop is now in the ascendancy but history shows us rock will get its turn again as it did many times since the 70's, a rock dominated (or credible pop) chart is not unique to the 60's and 70's, people from that era are just biased towards this attitude. I realised I'm just as bad when slagging off the naughties band's I just mentioned (white stripes excepted) as being inferior to bands like fugazi, pavement, MBV etc from my 90's childhood. The current fowlness of the chart will kickstart the next spell of rock dominance, it takes just one band.....and boom! Christ, the strokes managed it in 2001! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) If all those millions of people enjoy it, what makes you think that they're in the wrong and you're right? Perhaps it's your taste in music that is dodgy? Or maybe there is no wrong or right and there really is no reason to be bitter because more people like a different kind of music to the one you like? I should say, this isn't aimed at anyone here in particular, just to those who subscribe to the Us & Them in music. Edited November 12, 2012 by KingBollock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) thats a fair point Doddy...some kid might be inspired by a song that girls aloud or there producers have manufactured for them, but thats maybe a handful of kids among millions of teenagers... i will stand by my point that shows like the X Factor are not doing anything positive for the music industry, and millions of kids are being brainwashed into thinking this is what they should expect and is the standard.... sure money is the driving force behind every band ive ever listened to but when it takes over to the point that its all that really matters, its different.. Louis Walsh doesnt care about musical integrity, and his boy bands are his puppets.. he and mr Cowell care about making lots of money, and from that they have done very well.. Berry Gordy or Quincy Jones were the polar opposite to these clowns... i also think Girls Loud make very forgettable pop records... only my opinion.. when was the last time you saw a girl or boy band that were, shall we say... not very attractive, overweight, or not in the cookie cutter mold that we all find apparently, acceptable... i dont give a f*** what you look like.. if its good music keep it coming Edited November 12, 2012 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1352691546' post='1866219'] If all those millions of people enjoy it, what makes you think that they're in the wrong and you're right? Perhaps it's your taste in music that is dodgy? Or maybe there is no wrong or right and there really is no reason to be bitter because more people like a different kind of music to the one you like? I should say, this isn't aimed at anyone here in particular, just to those who subscribe to the Us & Them in music. [/quote] yes your quite right.. but its not really to do with musical taste... im all for people enjoying whatever music they want to listen to... im not forcing anyone to listen to what i might think is 'quality' music... i just have an opinion that certain shows are ruining music. im a level headed fair person and like to be educated by other people,if im wrong my good judgment will admit it.. Edited November 12, 2012 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1352693032' post='1866224'] yes your quite right.. but its not really to with musical taste... im all for people enjoying whatever music they want to listen to... im not forcing anyone to listen what i might think is 'quality' music... i just have an opinion that certain shows are ruining music as we all know it now... [/quote] Fair enough. Though I'm not sure how TV is ruining music, they can't make people listen to stuff they don't want to, not really. I would suggest that it's the popularity of the music that dictates the kind of music played on the shows. If that makes for bad TV, then it's the viewers that have made it so. Those shows aren't for me, my favourite Pop eras are the 60s, 70s and early 90s, so I don't watch them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 blimey KB is up as late as me!! neither do i watch them, but this evening i happened to be watching it with a couple of friends.. so i started a thread, and its a thread that has brought up an interesting if devided opinion........ is TV not the most powerful media? knowone will change my mind that the music on the x factor is not quality music.... millions of people watch it but just because its popular, doesnt mean its good...it will always be my modest opinion...... mc donalds is popular but is it good for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he man812 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1352680771' post='1866174'] I think there's a lot in that 'famous for being famous' thing. Once that takes over, their fans will buy anything they put out simply because it's them doing it.. But isn't that just a 'youngster' thing? You know, the way everyone 'rebels' and 'does their own thing' by wearing denim jeans, or whatever the latest fashion happens to be? It's that peer-pressure/cult thing. Then, as people grow up and become more confident in themselves they become less concerned about peer approval and start to make their own choices, at which point a much bigger world of music (or whatever) opens up before them. [/quote] I don't think its that. I think its greedy producers giving easy to follow music to make money and other poor young people getting sucked into it, maybe also due to peer pressure yes. Even if I did know and appreciate a lot more old music in the younger years of school i certainly had a lot less friends for it . But i see what you mean about getting older, I'm meeting more and more people that understand what i'm saying when i say led zeppelin. Also people that hear the stuff i listen to and go 'wow i never knew some of this was so awesome' and some people that can't stand it. Well each to his own i say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1352697465' post='1866230'] mc donalds is popular but is it good for you... [/quote] Define good..... If you meant nutritionally then no.... but for the soul some would say yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 To the OP: Why are you wasting your time watching and writing about these shows? Wouldn't you be happier and your time better spent if you were actually out playing (and perhaps also writing) some music you like instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I wouldn't worry about it so much. If I ever got offered to play for a big pop artist who clearly did it just for fame and money, I'd join in. I've had years of playing in the 'DIY' hardcore scene, where NO ONE makes money (apparently). The issue is, someone always does, and its usually the promoter. That attitude annoys me more than the modern pop culture. I no longer associate myself with it. In fact, the older I get (I'm currently 31) the more relaxed I become about music, and I enjoy it more! Unless its your career, and you are suffering due to these big pop acts, just enjoy it, and take it with a pinch of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Actually , I think this is a good thread. If the op headlined the topic'x factor, or'britains got no talent', I wouldn't have looked at it. Now , when I was very very young, on radio 1 You could hear Neil diamond, mungo jerry, black sabbath, carpenters and slade played consecutive ly. I used to know all chart stuff up until 1977. Then disco really took off so I lost interest. Punk was linter eating tho. New faces was the programme then, and I hated tony hatch.( I'd probably think he was ok now), My solution is to avoid watching all 'hype'tv. I have my own mind, and refused to be brainwashed. Picky? No! Selective?yes! ,) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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