Dingus Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 [quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1353036567' post='1870854'] I'm fairly confident Sterling Ball would be onto this like a rat up a drainpipe...if he knew. [/quote] I am fairly sure that Sterling Ball will have known all about this bass as he is a business associate of Guitar Centre and has visited the Hollywood store where this bass was on display numerous times . I would be surprised if he was unaware that the bass was up for sale , but I suppose that it could have slipped his attention somehow . I agree with you that you would think that if he did know this bass was for sale then it would be nice to keep this slice of MM history with the company , but maybe Sterling has his own priorities . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) I'm pretty sure Sterling Ball will know about this latest sale also - there's a thread posted by Gav (the Aussie expert, Musicman org website owner and Musicman bass forum moderator) on the Musicman bass forum. The old adage that you basically convert the value in dollars to £ Sterling for the same item for sale in this country seems to apply here - plus a bit of profit/reimbursement of shipping costs for the owner, and a bit for the shop fee makes it about right as far as I can see. I really think it ought to be in a museum on display or on display at Musicman - has anyone been to look at it from here? It would be an experience just to look at it let alone play it - not sure I can get up there in the next week (if it's still there) - it looks fantastic - as new - in the photos. The point made about pick up cover colours and control knobs - this is the first production Stingray - the ones with X series numbers are pre-production prototypes and all the ones I've seen have been natural finish, have white pu covers, black pick guards, and normal knurled control knobs. The 'radio' knobs appear to occur on very early Rays but knurled ones appear as well. The white pick up cover was an option on new instruments up to about 1979 (indeed I looked at a 77 Inca Silver Ray at Bass Centre a few years back which had a white pu cover). I know it's possibly a heinous crime uttering anything in this place about those six string things our guitar toting colleagues usually play far too loudly................ but Stingray guitar #0001 was also for sale not too long ago (also previously owned by Forrest White IIRC). Edited November 16, 2012 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick's Fine '52 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 [quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1353072831' post='1871274'] I'm pretty sure Sterling Ball will know about this latest sale also - there's a thread posted by Gav (the Aussie expert, Musicman org website owner and Musicman bass forum moderator) on the Musicman bass forum. The old adage that you basically convert the value in dollars to £ Sterling for the same item for sale in this country seems to apply here - plus a bit of profit/reimbursement of shipping costs for the owner, and a bit for the shop fee makes it about right as far as I can see. I really think it ought to be in a museum on display or on display at Musicman - has anyone been to look at it from here? It would be an experience just to look at it let alone play it - not sure I can get up there in the next week (if it's still there) - it looks fantastic - as new - in the photos. The point made about pick up cover colours and control knobs - this is the first production Stingray - the ones with X series numbers are pre-production prototypes and all the ones I've seen have been natural finish, have white pu covers, black pick guards, and normal knurled control knobs. The 'radio' knobs appear to occur on very early Rays but knurled ones appear as well. The white pick up cover was an option on new instruments up to about 1979 (indeed I looked at a 77 Inca Silver Ray at Bass Centre a few years back which had a white pu cover). I know it's possibly a heinous crime uttering anything in this place about those six string things our guitar toting colleagues usually play far too loudly................ but Stingray guitar #0001 was also for sale not too long ago (also previously owned by Forrest White IIRC). [/quote] I'm down at Andy's next Tuesday or Wednesday, for a spot of trading, so, if its still there, I'll try and have a whirl on it, and let y'all know how it plays. I just hope it doesnt draw me in too much. As has been said, it should be on display at MM. Looking forward to seeing it though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 [quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1353078568' post='1871399'] I'm down at Andy's next Tuesday or Wednesday, for a spot of trading, so, if its still there, I'll try and have a whirl on it, and let y'all know how it plays. I just hope it doesnt draw me in too much. As has been said, it should be on display at MM. Looking forward to seeing it though! [/quote] involving a bass starting with R? It did strike me today - we talk about ground breaking bass design - and getting it right first time etc etc and the fact Leo seems to have done it right so many times - it strikes me that the important thing he designed wasn't the bass in itself - it was the pickup and where to put it. Thinking how a 51 and 57 P, a Jazz and a Musicman all have a distinctive pickup - in a certain placement that gives it it's sound. My guess would be that many of the other design decisions after that were let by economy and marketing as much as engineering. (sorry Luthiery) Expand that outwards - what else has a "classic" sound - and it's not so much basses as the pickups -Rickenbacker, Wal, and so - all with their own pickups. I wonder with the tendancy for many builders to use the existing designs if we miss out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick's Fine '52 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1353079162' post='1871411'] involving a bass starting with R? [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Is there anything else past the classic P placement, JJ (60s/70s) placements, or H Ray placements? They are the classics. Its odd how nothing else has come along to add to that (and I mean as in it had had huge popularity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Either Sterling Ball is a m***e bag of biblical proportions, or this bass is a total ringer. If I were the owner of EBMM, etc, it would be in a glass case in my boardroom as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 [quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1353091054' post='1871629'] Either Sterling Ball is a m***e bag of biblical proportions, or this bass is a total ringer. If I were the owner of EBMM, etc, it would be in a glass case in my boardroom as we speak. [/quote] If they already have a X model then this ones not as important IMO plus there does not appear to be much of a nostalgic link between MM and EBMM, for me they bought a humbucker, oval plate and the 3 and 1 tuners/headstock shape. Although the design was good in the first place in reality they are quite different basses, the necks are totally different in profile and gloss finished, the pickup windings are different, the EQ's were different for the most part until the settled on 2 band,the slab body, the string through bridge, the 3 or 4 bolt necks, the standard truss rod setup, so its that oval guard and overall look that make them the same, if you remove that then they are quite different to the EBMM versions IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) However, Sterling allegedly had a hand in designing these basses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Man_StingRay Edited November 16, 2012 by steve-soar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 wow.. im not really into stingrays, i will always be a fender jazz bass man, but is a very special bass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1353092836' post='1871653'] If they already have a X model then this ones not as important IMO plus there does not appear to be much of a nostalgic link between MM and EBMM, for me they bought a humbucker, oval plate and the 3 and 1 tuners/headstock shape. Although the design was good in the first place in reality they are quite different basses, the necks are totally different in profile and gloss finished, the pickup windings are different, the EQ's were different for the most part until the settled on 2 band,the slab body, the string through bridge, the 3 or 4 bolt necks, the standard truss rod setup, so its that oval guard and overall look that make them the same, if you remove that then they are quite different to the EBMM versions IMO [/quote] I think you may be overstating the point slightly with these Pete. The fact is that the early EBMM basses (4 bolt neck attachment) in 2 band form is pretty similar to a pre EB Stingray - they introduced the contouring from the Sabre, rather than the slab body but that improves playability. I could go and order a Classic Stingray 4 tomorrow with a natural body and a flamed maple neck that would sound virtually the same as that bass - the only significant difference would be the neck attachment and truss rod adjuster (which are updated to a more robust design) - oh and they hadn't quite got the pick up pole lengths fixed for the first year or so and they were 3 or 4 iterations away from the EQ they settled on - but they will basically have the same characteristics. I have owned all sorts of these (and currently have 5 EBMMs and no pre EBs) - the classic Stingray is as close to a re-issue pre EB you're ever likely to get - 79 spec pre amp and pick up and all. But that bass is a thing of beauty!! Major GAS. Edited November 16, 2012 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 The half dozen (no. 1-6) made after this one were given to reps to go and sell Stingrays. These (and the subsequent thousand or so) had the radio knobs, this bass may have a few other differences too. No.8 was, apparently, given as a gift to someone by Eric Clapton and is now in Japan. (Personal opinion from a regular user of a Ray and a Precision, they are about as different as any other bolt-on bass. Clearly have Leo's stamp on the designs and you can see how his developing ideas were now free to be implemented.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 My pre EBs both have something the classic doesn't but it's hard to pin down, they certainly have more thump and from the neck profiles they feel as different again as my Jazz does to my 2002 Ray I traded on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Pre-EB is cheaper too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Only cheaper than a new classic and only when they come available anywhere other than Andybaxters, £1900 minimum for most of his now, if they are the prices he is getting for them then the pre EB is on the move upwards, resales of classics don't look that strong either even as new condition classic 5's are dropping below £1300 which is a massive saving on list price! I still want one though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1353110074' post='1871848'] No.8 was, apparently, given as a gift to someone by Eric Clapton and is now in Japan. [/quote] Carl Raddle apparently (per Musicman.Org website) who was Eric Clapton's bass player through the 70s at least. Interesting thing is that if you watch footage of the era (and there was some recently on the BBC4 programme, Guitarists at the BBC) not only is Carl Raddle playing a Ray (possibly #8) but the entire back line is Musicman amps and the rythmn guitarist is playing a Stingray guitar as well!! So possibly read for Eric Clapton presenting the bass to him that the whole band was endorsed so was presented with the equipment. I have a DVD of the Average White Band playing at the Montreux Festival in 1977 and Alan Gorrie is playing what looks like an X series Stingray bass (natural, white pick up cover, black pick guard) whilst Hamish Stewart plays a sunburst one with white pickguard (mostly with a pick as opposed to Gorrie's fingerstyle and occassional slap style). They were still using Stingrays when I saw then in 79/80. The think that stands out for me on these performances is the phenominal bass sound (in the case of AWB they are using Acoustic back line for the basses). Edited November 17, 2012 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1353115290' post='1871891'] Only cheaper than a new classic and only when they come available anywhere other than Andybaxters, £1900 minimum for most of his now, if they are the prices he is getting for them then the pre EB is on the move upwards, resales of classics don't look that strong either even as new condition classic 5's are dropping below £1300 which is a massive saving on list price! I still want one though [/quote] They've often been around the price of a new Stingray in the past but there seems to be a lot of discounting going on in America to try and shift new/NOS basses - did you see the thread on TB about the Custom Shop Fender sold by GC for $1500? Plus GC made a cock up on the prices of their MM basses recently and sold some for very discounted prices - if these appear on Ebay, they might end up for sale here for the prices you mention. You should try a Classic Ray - a key thing about them is the fretboard radius (7.5 in) - my Classic feels quite different from my other 4 string Rays for this reason. Edited November 17, 2012 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudburst Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Well folks, I went and bought it. Really nice instrument, but the action was just slightly high for me. So I sent it to a luthier who comes highly recommended. Chap by the name of Mark Phillips. CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Awesome! I have tried the classics drT I like them and I want a classic 5, freshly broken wrist will delay a purchase though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 [quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1353167628' post='1872340'] Well folks, I went and bought it. Really nice instrument, but the action was just slightly high for me. So I sent it to a luthier who comes highly recommended. Chap by the name of Mark Phillips. CB [/quote] Really? Or am I being naive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick's Fine '52 Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 [quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1353190665' post='1872683'] Really? Or am I being naive? [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 [quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1353190963' post='1872686'] [/quote] Bugger, I'm in that position aren't I? Because I don't know who Mark Phillips is. I'll go for the naive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Nor me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Ohhh! Let me in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudburst Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Oh, you will find plenty of threads on this site about his antics involving cruelty to stringed instruments. Here is one example. http://basschat.co.uk/topic/190191-guess-who CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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