Happy Jack Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 I use the Headphones output on my Eden for in-ear monitoring of my own bass. Using someone else's backline today, I found myself using an Ampeg SVT something-or-other, with what few sockets there were on the back of the amp rather than the front. I found (by feel) two sockets which would drive my ear-piece, but each of them also cut off the signal to the cab! So ... no in-ear monitoring then. Was I missing something? Does anyone else use in-ear monitoring? Is this a common problem, or are Ampeg SVT's badly-designed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Some amps may automatically mute the speaker out if the headphone output is engaged - presumably for home practice purposes. If I had to amp share and used in-ears, I'd want to split the signal from my bass into a dedicated in-ear system so that it didn't matter what amp was available. But then I wouldn't use an amp and in-ears (unless I was playing huge venues). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 I'm playing very small venues, but I'm an inexperienced player and I'm really not happy unless I can hear what I'm playing pretty clearly. With the cab either on the floor or a low stand, I can never hear myself properly on stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain1985 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='196253' date='May 10 2008, 10:24 PM']I use the Headphones output on my Eden for in-ear monitoring of my own bass. Using someone else's backline today, I found myself using an Ampeg SVT something-or-other, with what few sockets there were on the back of the amp rather than the front. I found (by feel) two sockets which would drive my ear-piece, but each of them also cut off the signal to the cab! So ... no in-ear monitoring then. Was I missing something? Does anyone else use in-ear monitoring? Is this a common problem, or are Ampeg SVT's badly-designed?[/quote] There not badly designed just not designed for what you are after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='197508' date='May 12 2008, 08:54 PM']I'm playing very small venues, but I'm an inexperienced player and I'm really not happy unless I can hear what I'm playing pretty clearly. With the cab either on the floor or a low stand, I can never hear myself properly on stage.[/quote] I'm a relatively experienced player (although I have nothing on some of the guys on these forums) and I have that same problem. The only solution I have is to either play with a stack (inappropriate for small venues) or angle your cab up to your ears using a foam wedge underneath the front of it. If you're only using the cab to hear yourself (ie. you're also going through the PA) then you could just stick your amp up on a chair or stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted May 14, 2008 Author Share Posted May 14, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='198438' date='May 14 2008, 03:56 AM']The only solution I have is to either play with a stack (inappropriate for small venues) or angle your cab up to your ears using a foam wedge underneath the front of it. If you're only using the cab to hear yourself (ie. you're also going through the PA) then you could just stick your amp up on a chair or stand.[/quote] Yes, I've tried angling the cab but by the time I've tilted it enough that I'm in the "cone" of sound it projects, most of my sound is bouncing off the ceiling. All my live experience to date has been at jam sessions and open mic nights. By and large, that means no set-up time and no chance to DI the bass. Last night I was lucky enough to be in the House Band at my local jam. I took a small Eden rig (WTX-260 + NS115 + NS210) and had plenty of time to set up. The rig was plenty loud, but until I plugged in my ear-piece I could barely hear myself ... even though people at the back of the room were wincing. My initial post on this thread wasn't intended to insult Ampeg users. I'm well aware of their reputation and class. But I was genuinely surprised to find that an amp the size of a decent TV couldn't find room for a few more sockets, and offer a bit more flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Jack, firstly, and I'm not jokin, but if others were wincing and you couldn't hear it then I seriously recommend that you get your hearing tested. As those who know me know I have a serious hearing deficiency and overcome the problem by boosting the mids on the bass. I don't know what bass you play but I usually use a jazz bass with a J-Retro and use the mid sweep on the Retro to boost the low mid frequencies. I recently used a P and couldn't hear a damn thing. BTW it's good to hear that the speaker cables are working well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I find that the more gigs I play, the better I get at playing in time and in tune when I can't hear anything much. I've never played a gig with good sound - and I wouldn't expect it from a jam session. You could try running a slightly different two cab set-up where you put a 2x10 or something on the floor as your main cab and then stick another quieter one (something like a Gallien-Krueger MBX Cab) on a stand up by your ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I know Ampeg heads pretty well and none of the SVT range has a headphone out socket as far as I'm aware. Even though you don't specify the model I can only imagine that you might have plugged in to the 1/4" speaker out whilst the cab was connected to the speakon. This disconnects the speakon (and therefore the cab) but putting this signal in to your monitoring unit is NOT recommended. I would have thought it would be WAY too hot. I can't think of any other 1/4" socket that you could plug in to that would disconnect the cab and still provide you with a signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted May 14, 2008 Author Share Posted May 14, 2008 [quote name='obbm' post='199041' date='May 14 2008, 08:48 PM']Jack, firstly, and I'm not jokin, but if others were wincing and you couldn't hear it then I seriously recommend that you get your hearing tested. As those who know me know I have a serious hearing deficiency and overcome the problem by boosting the mids on the bass. I don't know what bass you play but I usually use a jazz bass with a J-Retro and use the mid sweep on the Retro to boost the low mid frequencies. I recently used a P and couldn't hear a damn thing. BTW it's good to hear that the speaker cables are working well.[/quote] My hearing is actually very good, Dave. I have a full medical every year and (apart from a dip in the right ear caused by shooting when I was younger) it's as good as it ever was. Talking to others at these jams, both players and audience members, it seems that the sound/volume is fine but the players are standing so close to the backline that in some respects we are effectively 'behind' it. Assuming that the sound from the cab is essentially a cone expanding away from the speaker(s), my head is outside that cone of sound. I've played literally dozens of different basses at these things (I collect vintage Hofners) and I get the same issue with all of them. Last night, as it happens, I was playing a 1984 Rickenbacker 4003 in full-on [i]clank[/i] mode, and that would normally cut through pretty well. The cables are excellent, exactly what I needed. And they're distinctive enough that no one has yet tried to walk off with them by mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted May 14, 2008 Author Share Posted May 14, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='199045' date='May 14 2008, 08:54 PM']I find that the more gigs I play, the better I get at playing in time and in tune when I can't hear anything much. I've never played a gig with good sound - and I wouldn't expect it from a jam session. You could try running a slightly different two cab set-up where you put a 2x10 or something on the floor as your main cab and then stick another quieter one (something like a Gallien-Krueger MBX Cab) on a stand up by your ears.[/quote] The last House Band gig I did was a month ago. Just out of curiosity and a sense of mischief I took along two Eden D210XLT cabs with the NS115 on top, making a full-on 6-foot-high stack! The NS115 acted as my personal monitor (hey - how OTT do you want it?) and the sound from the XLT's was curing gall-stones all round the room. That worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted May 14, 2008 Author Share Posted May 14, 2008 [quote name='Muppet' post='199061' date='May 14 2008, 09:17 PM']I know Ampeg heads pretty well and none of the SVT range has a headphone out socket as far as I'm aware. Even though you don't specify the model I can only imagine that you might have plugged in to the 1/4" speaker out whilst the cab was connected to the speakon. This disconnects the speakon (and therefore the cab) but putting this signal in to your monitoring unit is NOT recommended. I would have thought it would be WAY too hot. I can't think of any other 1/4" socket that you could plug in to that would disconnect the cab and still provide you with a signal.[/quote] From memory, it said either 425 or 450 on the front. I could easily be wrong. I think I was using the [i]FX Send[/i] socket. I'm really not very good with electricity (I'm always worried that it will drip out of the sockets and ruin the carpet) but even I know better than to plug head/earphones into a [i]Speaker Out[/i] socket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I think the only answer is to upgrade your in-ear monitoring system so that the signal splits off from your bass before it goes into the amp. If you got something like an EBS Microbass II, you could plug your headphones into the headphone out and run a "clean" signal from the Link output on it. There's probably a cheaper device but none of the in-ear users seem to be posting in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Interesting read. I swear by IEM and have found a bullet proof and great sounding solution - I use my Bass Pod XT pro headphone output into my Shure E2cs and bought a little in-line volume control for them. That way the DI feed to my rig or to the PA is unaffected and I can hear the band (the IEMs are not fully noise cancelling, I use the foam inserts) and I adjust the bass level to suit. Sounds great every time and protects my hearing at the same time. I find myself using less volume to my IEMs at gigs than i do at home when practising. I am sure this would be an option for you but using a signal splitter in place of a pod. The little volume control is a dead easy solution, even comes with a clip so you can stick it on the back pocket of your trousers. OBBM made me a headphone extension cable that does the job nicely, and there we go!! I have used wireless in the past but don't have it any more and honestly find this easier, cheaper and simpler. Contact OBBM for any special leads and splitters etc as I am sure he will be able to sort you out here. Let us know how you get on with it, very interested in IEM solutions. Cheers ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='199125' date='May 14 2008, 10:26 PM']From memory, it said either 425 or 450 on the front. I could easily be wrong. I think I was using the [i]FX Send[/i] socket. I'm really not very good with electricity (I'm always worried that it will drip out of the sockets and ruin the carpet) but even I know better than to plug head/earphones into a [i]Speaker Out[/i] socket. [/quote] Many apologies, didn't mean to suggest you didn't know what you were doing, I just couldn't think of any other way - my mistake. Sounds like you were actually using a SVT-450H and the effects loop is in series so when you use the send, it breaks the signal path (I don't think the volume on the head would have affected your monitoring if this is the case). The preamp out socket would also have done what you experienced, so two output signals, both cutting the signal to the cab, exactly as you say. The only way you could have done in IMO is to use the XLR line out. The other SVTs loops are wired in parallel I believe and they have things like tuner outs that you could use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Muppet' post='199193' date='May 14 2008, 11:43 PM']Sounds like you were actually using a SVT-450H and the effects loop is in series so when you use the send, it breaks the signal path (I don't think the volume on the head would have affected your monitoring if this is the case). The preamp out socket would also have done what you experienced, so two output signals, both cutting the signal to the cab, exactly as you say. The only way you could have done in IMO is to use the XLR line out.[/quote] I think a simple Y cable would do the trick from either the Effects Send or the Preamp Out. Plug one end of the Y cable into either the Effects Send or Preamp Out and then one side of the split back into the amp at the Effects Return or Power Amp In. Then plug the other side of the split into a volume control unit like in Ped's system and then into your headphones. It sounds complicated but it's much cheaper and more practical than my first 3 suggestions - and that monster 3 cab rig you tried! I think that would work. But I think you'd be stuffed if you found yourself plugging into an amp that didn't have a built-in effects loop or preamp out/power amp in. EDIT: If the Y cable + in-line volume control + in-ear monitors system works, I might try it on a gig to see what it's like. Edited May 15, 2008 by The Funk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Sounds like a good idea. Would like to know how you get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 Hmmm. Under loads of pressure for the next couple of weeks, but I'm beginning to see a conversation with OBBM taking shape ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-T-P Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 In ear monitoring is the best thing I ever did. I use the Thomann T-Bone IEM system which cost about £165 and a set of Shure SCL-3 (previously used E3c, but these got nicked) which cost about £110. We've enough aux sends on the PA that I can get an individual mix, but failing that the transmitter has L/R phono ins and a seperate line in, both with level control so you could just take the FOH mix into the stereo ins and add a line in from your bass and twiddle the knobs to get a balance you're happy with. No more competing to hear yourself as you'd like which means less digging in when you're playing which means less trouble with cramping and more efficient technique which makes for potentially faster playing. No more ringing ears post-gig and/or tired ears. Does wonders for your singing too 'cause you can hear yourself so much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 We should start an IEM club... Why do people bother with rigs on stage, eh? ;0) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-T-P Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 [quote name='ped' post='200223' date='May 16 2008, 10:25 AM']We should start an IEM club... Why do people bother with rigs on stage, eh? ;0)[/quote] Yeah, I honestly can't recommend them enough. You have to make sure you're using them correctly to get the tone you want to hear and you have to give them a fair crack of the whip and not simply give up after two gigs. It took about 10 gigs to get comfortable wearing them and about another 10 before I could consistenly got the sound I wanted. No looking back now though, on the few occasions where there's been too much interference to be able to use them I've really noticed how much more effort I have to put into my playing, how many of the subtleties and nuances have to get sacrificed and how jaded my ears are when it's all over. Have just acquired a decent road-usable condenser mic which I'm gonna use to add some room ambience to the IEM mix this weekend so quite looking forward to how that will hopefully enhance the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basspyro Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I'm literally just selling my Ampeg 810 + SVTCL rig in pursuit of IEM I have a bass pod pro, and sans amp which gives me a lovely tone. But what i really want is a rackmount 2-4 channel mixer so i can take my vocal mic signal, split it, and so i can have my vox and bass in my ears! Has anyone done that? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Funnily enough I did something very similar - a Mesa 400+/1516BE cab rig for a pod xt pro! Much happier now! The mixer idea should work fine with a bit of experimentation. I really want a TecAmp Pleasure Board to stand on like BC member 'Area' but I have happily gigged my current setup for a long time now and I really am very happy. ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 [quote name='ped' post='200223' date='May 16 2008, 10:25 AM']We should start an IEM club... Why do people bother with rigs on stage, eh? ;0)[/quote] Hi Ped, I believe UB40's bass player (name escapes me right now) had something similar to the pleasure board built. Details are in a (fairly) recent BGM interview. Maybe cheaper than a pleasure board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 The IEM sounds great. Can you converse with your band mates with them in, during songs or is it down to lip reading ? Jack. You may want to try a Schroeder or Bergatino cab. In my experience both of them make the bass so much more audible on stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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