Hartke or Ampeg or GK or something else?

[BobVbass]

Hi All,

I'm thinking of upgrading my amp - I've currently got an Ashdown ABM Evo II - it's ok but doesn't have much headroom especially when competing with loud keyboards - it's smooth deep sound needs a lot of driving to be heard.

My cab is a super twelve so it can handle just about anything - I'm looking for something that can really throw some sound but have a bit of character (I hate all the class D ones I've tried so far althought that's limited to an EA iAmp 800 and Mark bass)

I don't care about weight, a rackmount would be nice so I can get a rack tuner as well but not that fussed, probabaly second hand but I'd buy new I suppose - so I've sort of come down to an Ampeg SVT Pro 4, G-K 2001 or a Hartke Kilo.

Any thoughts and opinions at all or other recomendations?

[hamfist]

SOunds like you have been suffering with ABM-syndrome, rather than a lack of watts. ABMs are great for certain tones (as you say "smooth and deep") but can easily fail ot "cut" in a band situation IME and can be difficult to get good volume out of. I can't believe that with a S12 you really need to go above a 500W amp to get staggering volume. SOunds like you need to be selecting an amp to get a tone that fits in and cuts through your band sound a bit, rather than just going for outright watts.
Also take a look at the Genz Shuttlemax range. Personally I'd look at the whole GK RB range, not just the expensive powerhouse model. If you like Ashdown but want a lot more brightness and cut, and more perceved volume than the ABM, then the SPyder 550 is a very good choice , and a very clean amp too.

What genre(s) are you playing and what sort of tone are you really looking for ?

Edited November 21, 2012 by hamfist

[BobVbass]

That's spot on I think - In all the other deps and bands I've done I never have to run it above half way to create a thunderous sound - but in this new band which is heavy on keyboards (no keys in any of the other bands) I'm up at 7/8ths and it just sounds murky and muddy and just downright quiet whatever the EQ's set at - very strange

It's mainly modern dancey function music with this band; killers, Rhianna etc - deps vary from the usual social club classics <cough> to 50's rock and roll on the double bass - I guess what I really need is an amp with clarity at it's heart but enough features on it to roughen up the sound if I need it (if that makes sense?) - the ABM seems to be a bit of a one trick pony (albeit in the right situation a bloody good trick at that)

[hamfist]

[quote name='bob_pickard' timestamp='1353489911' post='1875055']
That's spot on I think - In all the other deps and bands I've done I never have to run it above half way to create a thunderous sound - but in this new band which is heavy on keyboards (no keys in any of the other bands) I'm up at 7/8ths and it just sounds murky and muddy and just downright quiet whatever the EQ's set at - very strange

It's mainly modern dancey function music with this band; killers, Rhianna etc - deps vary from the usual social club classics <cough> to 50's rock and roll on the double bass - I guess what I really need is an amp with clarity at it's heart but enough features on it to roughen up the sound if I need it (if that makes sense?) - the ABM seems to be a bit of a one trick pony (albeit in the right situation a bloody good trick at that)
[/quote]

Hmmmm. Yes, most keyboardist's left hands are your ENEMY. Might make a huge difference if the bass frequencies could be trimmed on the keys sound, and perhaps a small nugget of advice about left hand technique to the keys player. IMO, most "good" keys players hardly play bass/root notes at all in a pop/rock band context with a bass guitar.

I'd recommend getting an amp with the clean tone that you like. Dirt can be alwyas added with pedals of all sorts of different colours and tones. A great clean tone is harder to find. I've found my answer in an Ashdown SPyder 550, but it's so hard ro recommend a specific amp, as it comes down so much to taste. Just do a lot of reading and a lot of listening to clips and videos to give you a flavour of what different amps offer.

[Lozz196]

I can`t really recommend anything, as my preference is Markbass, which you`ve stated you`re not keen on, however the way I made my Markbass choice was liking them when I heard bassists in other bands use them. I just loved the way they sat in the mix so much. So that could be a good way to find out, go and watch a good few bands, and keep eyes/ears on the bassists rigs. Then look into the ones you liked the best.

[BobVbass]

good advice there chaps - at least it's getting a bit straighter in my head what I need to do

[JTUK]

Depends how much volume you want or need.

My beef with Ashdown is that the EQ is basic... which is ok if the rest of your signal chain works well, but even then..???
Markbass LM's sound great at low volumes but run out of guts too quickly for me...and I need the headroom with the way I play.
GK are just too grainey in tone and struggle from the word go.
Ampeg are ok if you want AMPEG ..

I guess that leaves GB to delve into.

If it was me..and the budget was 'keen'.. £4-500, I'd look at older SWR or Eden hybrids which have very good semi para 4 bands which are great for tone-shaping... should you need it.
Don't much like the newer stuff, but that is more about then being churned out out East than the sound quality itself.

[BobVbass]

Hmmm...Ok

well not too fussed on how much I spend so long as it;s not ridiculous, up to a grand ish I suppose.

In terms of volume we normally play big halls/marquees very (very) occasionally pubs so I reckon 500W would be the absolute minimum, I'd much prefer something that's got loads of spare capacity than running something at 99% all evening.

It's the usual trouble of you never know what something really sounds like 'til you gig it a few times by which time it's too late. I have huge distrust in the little mimsy class d lightweight things though - both the EA and the MB seemed to cut out at inappropriate moments whereas both the ABM and even my old Peavey Firebass seem to be built like tanks and shrug off anything.

[phatbass787]

If its headroom you need?

http://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/products/ashdown_abm_1000_bass_head.asp

[sifi2112]

I ran my Markbass Classic 300 (all valve) thru my BareFaced S12T till I got my GK 700RB-II .. S12 was made bi-amped esp for the GK as Alex suggested seeing as I really like the old GK 400RB (so no crossover to tweeter) .. absolutely 'spot on' for my kinda sound & easy loud enough. (MB Classic ran without tweeter btw & still sounded great) ...

just my 2c .. so get a 2nd hand 700RB for about £300 ..... but there are probably quite a few other good options even at that price.

cheers

Si

[JTUK]

That is a decent budget.
Maybe the Ampeg pro 7.... altho I am not an Ampeg fan ..or Boogie..?

Hiwatt..?? but would look silly on top of the cab..?? Orange Terror..?? but not a versatile type sound, IMV
so more one trick than what you already have.

[LawrenceH]

Since you want rackmount, you want headroom and you've got the cab to handle it then why not get a decent PA amp to handle the power side of things? I don't do it currently but if ever I need a 'big rig' sound then I've got a QSC PLX2402 sitting around that will kick the trousers out of any bass amp going. An amp that can handle real PA subwoofer duty without coming up short will give you incredible clean power. Then pick the pre of your choice.

Edited November 22, 2012 by LawrenceH

[charic]

Cut your bass a little bit, boost low mids (or if you don't have those then the mids), cut treble a little bit

Alternatively do the above to the keys and the opposite to the bass. You're occupying the same frequency range and fighting, no amp will fix that.

Well... saying that



1600W of "Shut Up the Keyboard Player"

[JTUK]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1353543443' post='1876002']
Since you want rackmount, you want headroom and you've got the cab to handle it then why not get a decent PA amp to handle the power side of things? I don't do it currently but if ever I need a 'big rig' sound then I've got a QSC PLX2402 sitting around that will kick the trousers out of any bass amp going. An amp that can handle real PA subwoofer duty without coming up short will give you incredible clean power. Then pick the pre of your choice.
[/quote]

Not class D then..

[gjones]

Volume wars are never a good idea. Personally I think you need to keep an eye on the keyboard players left hand. Unless they're Professor Longhair, the bass notes they play will be pretty rudimentary and won't add anything to the overall sound. All they'll manage to do is muddy up the bottom end. Remember to be diplomatic about it.

Alternatively a little bit of extra EQ may be all that's needed. In the last 3 years I've owned a Fender TV15 (with the old fender tone stack EQ), a TC Electronics Classic 450, an Ashdown ABM 500 and now an Ashdown MiBass 550. And they all benefited from the extra EQ boost provided by my little BOSS GEB-7 graphic equaliser. Because it's a graphic EQ it's really easy to boost and cut specific frequencies and it makes it very easy to get a sound that works. They cost approx £80 brand new and a lot less than that secondhand. Which is a lot cheaper than going out and buying a 1000w amp in order to blow the keyboard player off the stage

[gsgbass]

I recently switched over to the Ampeg SVT-7PRO with no regrets. The tone is great, ample power, and the settings are simple to set.

[BobVbass]

So here I was just looking for an easy answer

Very interesting (I love this forum, it's the best) - I know I can get the bass to cut through as at practice last week we went to a studio as our usual hall wasn't available and I played through a Peavey Firebass, it's was miles cleaner than the ABM and cut through fine, so it is definitely an EQ issue.

I'll definitely try an EQ pedal, really like the idea of an Ampeg SVT pro as so many bass players I admire use them and I think I'll give the Kilo a shot in a shop and see whether all the knobs and whistles give me a headache.

The idea of a preamp and a PA power amp is interesting as well as I think I can get hold of a decent power amp pretty cheap. Absolutely no idea where I start with bass pre-amps tho! here we go again

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='bob_pickard' timestamp='1353660308' post='1876994']
The idea of a preamp and a PA power amp is interesting as well as I think I can get hold of a decent power amp pretty cheap. Absolutely no idea where I start with bass pre-amps tho! here we go again
[/quote]

It's a nice modular solution. I am currently using a little markbass F1 as a 'clean' amp into pretty flat response woofers, and doing my toneshaping with an old Peavey TB-Raxx - an amazing all-valve bargain 2ndhand, takes a bit of getting used to the EQ section but once you do it's very versatile. It would cost 10 times as much if it didn't look so 80s hair-metal! With this I could transition easily to a separate power amp set-up and it also means that my DI sound through the PA (post-preamp) is very similar to the stage sound.
The thing to look for is matching the preamp output to power amp input sensitivity. PA gear is designed to 'pro' standards so can be a bit unforgiving of bass kit, it needs a strong signal to get the most out of the amp. Some amps are more demanding in this respect than others. I'd imagine the rackmount POD would do the job fine for a digital solution but I'd be more wary of small pedal-format stuff. I believe one chap by the name of Claber, who cares a bit about sound quality, uses an Avalon U5/power amp into some cabs he knocked together himself.

[BobVbass]

Ah yes that Claber chappy, why didn't I think of that - he bashed my cab together from a few bits of plywood and tarmac he had laying about - I bet he could bung together an amp from an old kettle and a wheelbarrow if I asked him
Great Idea - I shall ask him straight away!

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1353508928' post='1875385']
GK are just too grainey in tone and struggle from the word go.
[/quote]

That's the first time I've ever heard that. I've used most of GK's stuff and I've never found it lacking or grainey. They've been consistently fat and loud sounding. Which amp was it you used?

[Jack]

Yeah, that 2001, it's all bark and no bite.

I had to move from an Ashdown once, though admittedly in my case it was a MAG. After trying everything I could get my little paws on I ended up with a GK 1001. They're a really good antidote to the Ashdown sound. I love them both but like you I sometimes felt like I was fighting the Ashdown's inherent voice. Wish I could have both sometimes but hey ho.

[lushuk]

[quote name='bob_pickard' timestamp='1353684593' post='1877447']he bashed my cab together from a few bits of plywood and tarmac he had laying about
[/quote]

No input but lol for the above!