tonybassplayer Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 We seem to have reached a bit of a plateau in that some of the band are happy with the financial investment ( very little ) in the band and the level of pay we are getting. We are a good "pub" band and a decent function band but potentially we could project ourselves much better to a bigger target audience. I am convinced that if we invested in a decent pa/lighting system etc and went to market properly ( pro dvd, proper marketing etc ) we could substantially move forward and I have suggested to the band that I would be prepared to fund this and run it on a more commercial basis ( I am from a sales, marketing, management background ) Anyone any experience of effectively "running" a function band ?? Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 I'd be happy to put you in touch with our Percussionist/Manager who seems to have done a pretty good job with our band, if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 (edited) Hey Tony... I don't manage but I work in a very Pro function band.... My words of wisdom are - Investment, promotion and professionalism. The function band I play with (www.5catfish.com - www.myspace.com/fiveconsultantsandtheirfish) invest a lot of money into the band. This year (so far) we will turnover over 100k in gigs. The investment is high on our part but the financial rewards are great. PA/Lighting is part of it.... but the most important part of all is Marketing the band properly. We have done so and we are reaping the rewards... I'm very selfish and not going to reveal how here as I see that as potentially losing business... So far this year we have spent the best part of £12k on promoting our outfit. We are just about to run an advert in a very high profile magazine which cost the best part of £2k.... Hope that gives you some idea of investment... Feel free to PM me any questions you may have Edited May 11, 2008 by crez5150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybassplayer Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 Thanks for the replies and I will probably contact you both to speak more about it but I am just waiting for the response from the band to see what they think. In an ideal world all six of us would decide to make it equal shares and invest but I know from past communication that will not happen although I can see one or two thinking down this line. I just think that at the moment we give very good value for money but with investment in equipment and marketing etc we can capitalise on our love for playing music. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ba55me15ter Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 As regards PA, I would say invest in finding a good, local hire company. Running a good rig and more importantly getting the best sound out of it is a huge investment in time, money and effort. Since we started hiring we have never looked back. To be 'professional' you at least need a separate engineer, so why not let them hump the gear and get it all set-up for you too? It makes gigs so much less of a chore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybassplayer Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 [quote name='Ba55me15ter' post='196832' date='May 12 2008, 12:11 AM']As regards PA, I would say invest in finding a good, local hire company. Running a good rig and more importantly getting the best sound out of it is a huge investment in time, money and effort. Since we started hiring we have never looked back. To be 'professional' you at least need a separate engineer, so why not let them hump the gear and get it all set-up for you too? It makes gigs so much less of a chore.[/quote] Definitely something to consider as storing and transporting equipment is also an issue to think about when investing in a new rig. What sort of price do "hired rigs including engineer" come for ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 [quote name='Ba55me15ter' post='196832' date='May 12 2008, 12:11 AM']As regards PA, I would say invest in finding a good, local hire company. Running a good rig and more importantly getting the best sound out of it is a huge investment in time, money and effort. Since we started hiring we have never looked back. To be 'professional' you at least need a separate engineer, so why not let them hump the gear and get it all set-up for you too? It makes gigs so much less of a chore.[/quote] +1 for hiring. I play in both a "pub" band and a function band. The function band always hire a PA now. You really DO need the sound engineer for these type of gigs and not having the hassle of setting up and breaking down a sizeable PA is well worth it. We price the Gig and add on the hire charges for PA/Lighting and the engineer is part of the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ba55me15ter Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 [quote name='tonybassplayer' post='196843' date='May 12 2008, 12:38 AM']What sort of price do "hired rigs including engineer" come for ??[/quote] I'm sure it varies greatly according to where you are etc, but we play 140 quid for a 2.5K rig plus lights with engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 [quote name='Ba55me15ter' post='196832' date='May 12 2008, 12:11 AM']As regards PA, I would say invest in finding a good, local hire company. Running a good rig and more importantly getting the best sound out of it is a huge investment in time, money and effort.[/quote] We made enough in deposits before our first gig that we ended up buying our own £4000 1k Mackie rig. Hiring didn't make any financial sense to us. Yes we have to hump our own PA around, but we've got a roadie now as well to help out and the PA gets stored in the garage belonging to our percussionist. We also run a pair of light stands with lighting controllers and a cheap projector which casts psychadelic patterns on the wall behind us. Looks fantastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 For the smaller gigs we have our own PA/Lighting etc.... thankfully we have two pro engineers in the band.... generally for the larger gigs we hire in 10-15K rig @ around £1200 a pop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 INHO A good function band should be run as a business, If I where you I would do a business plan with before you do anything rash. Work out the costing for both hire and buying, maybe it is worth looking into leasing a PA system, lights and or Van. If you buy remember that things go wrong and repairs can be costly. A few questions to ask you’re self 1. How often do you want to work, or can you work? 2. How much do you think you can charge? 3. Who is the competition what do they charge? 4. Is there a good market will pay more for what you play well? 5. Are you entertaining enough? 6. How far are you willing to ravel on a regular basis? I have worked as both bass player and sound engineer in professional function bands. I did on average about 250 gigs a year, traveled thousands of miles Mostly we carried our own PA and lights and owned are own van. Also In my experience most work comes through agents. The more you get paid the better the competition. One missed or bad gig can set you back a long way in the early stages, skimping on a cheap PA or van can cost you a lot more in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 One thought that comes from this talk of "professionalism" and large turnovers.... Before you begin, draw up some sort of agreement between the band members so that if someone chooses to leave (or, perish the thought, is asked to leave) they will know what they are and are not entitled to in the way of any payments (e.g. through share of PA etc.). It's not much fun but could prevent a lot of problems later on should someone leave. Make sure everyone understands and agrees to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderthumbs Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 The band I work with, I joined two years ago. At that time, they were a competent "clubland" band, but nothing more. We worked to improve the set, to make it more flexible, so that we could literally play any type of venue. Most of our work came through agents. We've slowly but surely tried to build our reputation as a functions band. That appears to be making its mark this year, as most of the bookings we have are for private functions. I can't agree more with most of the comments above. We recently invested in a new HK D.E.A.con PA system, and it has to be money well spent as far as we're concerned. But above all, I think the key issues are look good, sound good, and above all, be professional at all times. There's no point looking and sounding great if you're late, discourteous to clients, etc. That's a complete no-no. Don't forget, the customer [b]isn't[/b] always right, but the customer [b]IS[/b] king. And don't expect huge rewards instantly. The rewards will come in time. Just make sure you're always looking for constant improvement, however small that improvement can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 [quote name='BOD2' post='197189' date='May 12 2008, 02:52 PM']One thought that comes from this talk of "professionalism" and large turnovers.... Before you begin, draw up some sort of agreement between the band members so that if someone chooses to leave (or, perish the thought, is asked to leave) they will know what they are and are not entitled to in the way of any payments (e.g. through share of PA etc.). It's not much fun but could prevent a lot of problems later on should someone leave. Make sure everyone understands and agrees to it.[/quote] +1 And don't expect huge rewards instantly. The rewards will come in time. Just make sure you're always looking for constant improvement, however small that improvement can be. +1 also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 [quote name='ironside1966' post='197338' date='May 12 2008, 05:45 PM']+1 And don't expect huge rewards instantly. The rewards will come in time. Just make sure you're always looking for constant improvement, however small that improvement can be. +1 also[/quote] ++1 to the above!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybassplayer Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 Many thanks for the excellent advice. I am going to sit down with the rest of the band and discuss it in detail as we have talked about this for a while but we never seem to have time at a gig as there is always something else going on that takes precedence. I have a lot of management and marketing expertise and would want to run it as a business ( albeit part time initially ) and envisage taking full responsibility financially and from an organisation point of view leaving the other band members to concentrate on making music and enjoying the evening. I just hope that they see the positive side and how we can move forward if we have a dedicated person pro-actively marketing the band to prospective clients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Thats the way forward.... better to have one person handling this sort of thing.... one other comment... you may want to think about the TAX implications of running a band... when you get to a point where you are earning good money you need to account for this.... (maybe an invisible member of the band.... ahem...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Does anyone in a function band have a system of carving up the money paid out to band members based on what their contribution is? E.g. We have looked at splitting each fee into 40ths so for a £1000 gig there are 40 x £25 available. Each band member gets a base payment of 3/40 and the keyboard player who is also the DJ for the function gets 2/40 for that job and depending on what your contribution is you get a nuumber of 40ths until all the money is gone. We haven't actually done this yet but the first gigs are coming in July and we'd like to know if anyone has any good ways of splitting the cash. One way I reckoned was each band member has a base percentage, say 7% each, then there's expenses (travel, subsistence, consumables etc.) and on going running costs (marketing, CDs, website, phonecalls, business cards, etc.) and then anything left gets left in account to invest in new gear/costumes etc Anyone have a system or spreadsheet that could be adapted? Thanks Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I reckon this would make a good sticky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 [quote name='Sean' post='197666' date='May 13 2008, 07:53 AM']Does anyone in a function band have a system of carving up the money paid out to band members based on what their contribution is? E.g. We have looked at splitting each fee into 40ths so for a £1000 gig there are 40 x £25 available. Each band member gets a base payment of 3/40 and the keyboard player who is also the DJ for the function gets 2/40 for that job and depending on what your contribution is you get a nuumber of 40ths until all the money is gone. We haven't actually done this yet but the first gigs are coming in July and we'd like to know if anyone has any good ways of splitting the cash. One way I reckoned was each band member has a base percentage, say 7% each, then there's expenses (travel, subsistence, consumables etc.) and on going running costs (marketing, CDs, website, phonecalls, business cards, etc.) and then anything left gets left in account to invest in new gear/costumes etc Anyone have a system or spreadsheet that could be adapted? Thanks Sean[/quote] Sounds good in theory.... I think it would get a bit messy after a while.... The band I play with have a minimum set fee.... lets say £2k per show.... out of that £2k each member then gets a set fee for their services. There is an 'owner' of our band as it is a brand effectively. The owner (keyboard player and manager) is employing the rest of the band, therefore we are each responsible for our own tax. The owner also has his cut and also there is money there for Marketing, expenses etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 [quote name='crez5150' post='197669' date='May 13 2008, 07:59 AM']Sounds good in theory.... I think it would get a bit messy after a while.... The band I play with have a minimum set fee.... lets say £2k per show.... out of that £2k each member then gets a set fee for their services. There is an 'owner' of our band as it is a brand effectively. The owner (keyboard player and manager) is employing the rest of the band, therefore we are each responsible for our own tax. The owner also has his cut and also there is money there for Marketing, expenses etc...[/quote] A band I auditioned for (didn't get the gig) operated that system. Seemed pretty reasonable. Our covers band has four core members who play every song, plus the drummer's wife plays keyboards on a few of the songs. We split the money four ways then give Sue a cut from each of us (normally 10%). With the barn dance band, we have four core band members plus caller who nominally play every gig, and two additional musicians who play the larger gigs (one of them also sometimes deps for the guitarist in the core band). We simply split the money equally between the members who play for any given gig. With both bands, the cost of merchandising (not much, we've got some t-shirts for the barn dance band) and websites comes from the core members equally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybassplayer Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 We have two gigs this weekend so I am sure this will form part of the "between sets" chat. In the main the responses back from the band have been positive and have certainly been as I expected. I will let you know how it goes and see if we have made any progress Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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