Yet another band thread..Gig drama.

[lurksalot]

a couple of gigs ago our lead guitars wife came along, wanting to impress ,he put on a show ........only to be told by his Mrs he was too loud , what a beautiful sulk .

Our guitarists are generally really good , it is just a question of getting them to remember that the vocal needs a bit of space when its his turn

[JTUK]

I am surprised that this is a surprise at a gig.
Didn't you talk about the sound of the band before hand.. and what equipment you'll be running?
You should have had a dress rehearsal with giggiung line-up kit-wise..??

If you have 2 stacks blasting away, then the sound should be noticably awful/way too loud... and everyone would notice it..???
You must have gotten feedback to that effect..??

Anyway, you are where you are, so you either tell them and hope they see your POV or you walk anyway.

If they are putting their reasons above all else, then it will be a hopeless task

Gigs like that aren't really an option so you aren't losing out in the long run..

[ezbass]

Have to agree with earlier comments. I'd quit, these tools will never change even when they discover that the best tones come from miked up small combos. Don't make yourself miserable, your a bass player, you won't be waiting long for another gig.

My guitarist uses an 18watt H&K head into a 2x12 with PA support when needed.

Edited November 24, 2012 by ezbass

[Len_derby]

Electric guitars in music seem to be like 4WD vehicles on urban roads. Perfectly valid things in their own right, but seem to attract infantile owners. Anyway, there's a fantastic world of music without screaming b'Jesus guitars in it. I love playing with the ceilidh band and a I'm currently rehearsing with a piano trio for some Christmas shows. Heaven, with no ear-plugs.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Len_derby

[hamfist]

My guess is that these idiots will never change their ways.

I just auditioned with a potential new band this week. THe lead guitarist not only was too loud, but didn't use a tuner at all (and was slightly out of tune the whole time), and also had a waaaay too bass heavy tone, treading all over the bass guitars frequencies. I could tell within one song that there was no way that I would put up with that, or that he would change. There's two options, say goodbye or put up with it and bite your lip. One of those options is unacceptable to me, so I'll be sticking with my current band.

[jackers]

wow, that is alot of replies haha. I will do my best to answer everything.

I have considered my options and have decided to call time on this band, I just can't get past the way they acted last night, and it's only going to get worse IMO.

The problem didn't come up in rehearsals, as they only use 1 4x12 each and the drummer hits hard. While I would have loved to have been able to have things like dress rehearsals etc there just wasn't time. The first gig was 11 days after me and the singer joined (it was pre-arranged obviously), and we had to spend our time getting the songs tight.

I definitely agree with the nice tones coming from smaller amps. The best guitar sound (to my ears) I've ever heard at a gig came from a miced fender hot rod combo that the guitarist in my last band had.

I have spoken to them this morning and politely but firmly explained to them what I think about their attitude and rigs, and that it is not going to be worth my time, effort and petrol to keep playing with them. They said some rude things back to me, and that was that. Definitely made the right choice

Time to form my own band I think.

[RhysP]

You've definitely made the right decision, both for your sanity & your hearing.

[TimR]

Keep looking, there are bands out there who understand how it works. Unfortunately I can't see those guys ever seeing sense. They don't understand why the soundman wants them to turn down and your just a bass player. Some people learn by reading and listening, some people learn by experience and some people never learn. The hard bit is recognising when you are an a loser trying to educate that last set of people.

Edited November 24, 2012 by TimR

[chris_b]

Your guitarists really are morons.

Are the vocalist and drummer any good? Who gets the gigs?

Fire the idiots, replace them with some real guitarists and carry on.

Failing that, leave.

[Spike Vincent]

[quote name='bassmachine2112' timestamp='1353753380' post='1878067']
get a marshall VBA400 and 2 4x12 cabs and sound/pound them into submission
Do a Lemmy
[/quote]

I'd go for a pair of Ampeg SVT's with 8 x 10's,but same principle.

[GreeneKing]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1353754764' post='1878088']
Power soaks only work if speaker break-up isn't an important part of the guitar sound.
[/quote]

Thank christ he doesn't drive the thing into that territory.

[GreeneKing]

I think that one of the problems guitarists can have is in comparing like for like wattage with the bass player. I mean ours was happy with his 18W Marshall until I let it slip that my rig was rated at 500 watts.

[JapanAxe]

When I play guitar I take out a 15W 1x12 valve combo. In a trio this is plenty - there is no need for PA support on the backline or drums and it is easy to achieve a good balance. In the 7-piece soul band I sometimes play with, the 8th member is our sound man, who takes a mic or DI feed from everything and creates the FOH and monitor mixes.

These days there is no need (or excuse) for monster stacks at the small venues most of us play. Even at mega-enormodomes there are other ways to get the sound you want! I expect those guitarists deserve one another...

[Beer of the Bass]

Personally, I'd walk from a band that worked like that. Full stacks for guitar are a throwback to the days of festival gigs with vocal only PA - in any modern day situation it's just a big willy substitute IMO! I use a 15 watt 1x10" ( a Princeton Reverb copy) for gigging small venues on guitar. This works for me, but I'm not looking for chunky lows or truly clean cleans, and any decent size club will mic it anyway. I can see going up to something like a Fender Twin or a head and 2x12" cab for cleaner or chunkier sounds, but I don't see the need for more than that. Most of the guitarists on my local circuit using bigger amps are either running them on 1 and using pedals for the overdrive or using power brakes and the like, neither of which is particularly satisfying.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Beer of the Bass

[Rich]

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1353723720' post='1877925']
Ofcourse this was met with cries of "Everything below 100W sounds cr*p"[/quote]
I actually laughed out loud at this. What a pair of halfwits.

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1353761876' post='1878188']
I have spoken to them this morning and politely but firmly explained to them what I think about their attitude and rigs
They said some rude things back to me
[/quote]
See my previous comment re: halfwits. Watch their bookings dry up as every soundman and pub landlord in the area realises this too.
I do not blame you one bit for walking. Best of luck with finding/forming something more sensible!

[jackers]

thanks guys all the replies here confirm what I was thinking.

I think I'm going to steer clear of 'classic rock n roll' type bands, as they seem to have the highest concentration of moron guitarists

[ezbass]

Wise decision there I think. Well done for making what is always a tough decision.

[4-string-thing]

You have done the right thing. I left a band once because the two ham-fisted meatheads, or guitarists if you prefer, insisted on using a 200w Blackstar stack each! I was told "youre gonna HAVE to get a bigger amp" Obviously a 600w head into a 2x15 cab just wasn't enough. Someone on here said something at the time along the lines of: You'll be playing music a long time after they have stopped listening to music!

My hearing thanked me for it.....

[LawrenceH]

I love the logic employed; 'but the tone isn't the same at lower volume', maybe not but drowning out the drums, let alone anything else, is less than ideal too no?
When I did sound regularly, if I got this I'd ask (as diplomatically as I could) if they wanted a totally rubbish sound for the whole band, or if they could accept a slightly less good guitar sound but a band mix where vocals etc were actually audible. Most of the time this worked, and I'd often feed a bit of guitar back into the monitors and they'd think it was louder than ever since it was actually aimed at their ears!

If you want speaker break-up at small gigs then use 1x12" driver, not 8 of them...

[Grassie]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1353752234' post='1878047']
I would probably walk but take the vocalist and drummer with me, the guitarists are the easiest to replace anyway
[/quote]

This. Nothing else, just this.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1353761876' post='1878188']
The problem didn't come up in rehearsals, as they only use 1 4x12 each and the drummer hits hard. While I would have loved to have been able to have things like dress rehearsals etc there just wasn't time. The first gig was 11 days after me and the singer joined (it was pre-arranged obviously), and we had to spend our time getting the songs tight.
[/quote]

I don't get this. If they were happy to use just the one cab in rehearsals, then one cab should be fine for gigs. After all IMO rehearsals is where you sort everything out properly and have the time to fine tune all the details. If the correct sound is that important then they should be using their gig rigs there.

IME once you get out of the safe environment of the rehearsal room all bets are off as to how it's going to sound and what compromises you'll be forced to make in a gigging situation. So get it right (including using all the gear you want to use at the gig) first before you veture out into the unpredictable world of gigs.

[pietruszka]

Jackers, I'm pleased you got out. It seems it would be for the best. With knowledge from another thread, it seems you've handled this really well, and most importantly, professionally. And for that reason you shouldn't have much trouble getting into another band. You're an intelligent player and will find something else in no time.

I don't know what is going on in what appears to be most guitarists heads, but they have it set in concrete that they NEED these monstrously huge amps. It must be the rock n roll image that they feel they need to adhere to. And strangly, it only seems to be guitarists that suffer this over the top obsession with NEEDING over powered rigs dialed to 11.

In that respect I'm rather lucky that my guitarist uses a fender 1x12 combo, and he plays it really quietly. Even on the small pub gigs it's mic'd and he uses it purely for monitoring. I'd let you all use him in your bands but I've got bagsies!

Jacks! Let us know when you find another band!



Dan

[JTUK]

But the wider issue is that these guys will never get gigs...as slowly they will run out of people to play with....and if they do do a few dates, then
the dates will not add up to much over any sort of period and it will all fall apart anyway.

Music is a long learning curve at the best of times but you have to get past basics... na dbeing listenable is about as basic as it gets.
Fortunately, is is mostly a gtr disease and there are plenty on them to go round...

If you did take the drummer and Vox with you... then you can audition the new gtrs on exactly the problem you had with those other two..

[RhysP]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1353780955' post='1878449']
And strangely, it only seems to be guitarists that suffer this over the top obsession with NEEDING over powered rigs dialed to 11.
[/quote]
I don't know about that, there seem to be plenty of bass players these days who think it's impossible to do a gig without at least 500 watts behind them, which is just as ludicrous IMO.

[jackers]

I would have loved to have taken the drummer and vocalist with me, but unfortunately the drummer has been playing with them for 5 years and won't leave, and the singer seems to look up to the guitarists and is really eager to please them.