LukeFRC Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 my old band the guitarist used to use this big old heavy fender amp, right pain in the arse to move around - always mic'ed up of course cos that the best way to do it for the larger venues we used to play. One day we were helping a headline band we got on with with their load in, similar sound - we'ld heard them and they had a similar set of guitar sounds going on as us. Well I reach into the van and pull out their fender blues jr amp thing, hold it with one arm and the guitarist and me look at each other and he goes "bugger, when I was 15 I thought a big amp would be cooler" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestar Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 They sound complete morons. Leave the band or fire the guitards and find someone with a more professional and grown up attitude and actually knows what they're doing; these two clowns patently don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopsdabassist Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) Both my guitarists have now got 'hot plates' for their Marshall heads and I think we now have 'the look' but keep our hearing..and our audiences! Ansd for what its worth, I think you did the right thing and are best shot of them! Edited November 24, 2012 by Oopsdabassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Their argument might have had some validity 20 years ago but in this day and age there are numerous ways to get a good rock guitar sound at moderate volume levels: power attenuators, very lower power valve amps re amplified, analogue and digital modelling pedals etc etc. Also what they probably dont realise is that you usually get a much better sound from a miced-and-re amplified guitar sound for all the reasons the sound engineer said plus you often need to add a bit of reverb/delay to stop the sound from going sterile especially when the venue start to fill up with people and the natural ambiance drops off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Leaving was the only sensible choice. I`ve been in bands like that, and it`s a mindset where the guitarist(s) think that because they do a 30 second solo in each song, they are the star. They don`t seem to realise that the singer does a 2 or 3 minute solo in all the songs, so is the real star who needs to be heard, as it it is the singer that sells the band. And guitarists like that destroy otherwise good bands. There`s nothing wrong with a 4x12 - never seen the need for two of them mind - so long as the volume is used properly. That said, I find bands with guitarists using smaller amps (2x12s or 1x12s) have a snappier sound, which seems to bring more "life" to the sound. Certainly does with our guitarist in The Daves, he now uses two Marshall 1x12s, instead of his Peavey 4x12 and his whole sound is more defined, you can hear the effects better, and it`s not so wallowy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassintheface Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 They sound like a pair of pub rock pricks! I used to do the sound in a large 600 cap venue and the amount of unmusical guitards that 'needed' their amps on 11 were unreal! Apparently I didn't know what I was talking about! Show them this - http://barefacedbass.com/uploads/BGM57,%20Aug2010.pdf Sadly, most of the sh*t musicians I've come across have "all the gear and no idea", yet the proper talented ones are easy to work with and know the drill. You've done the right thing by f***ing them off!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalextra Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1353760766' post='1878161'] Electric guitars in music seem to be like 4WD vehicles on urban roads. Perfectly valid things in their own right, but seem to attract infantile owners. [/quote] Such a cliche analogy! I have a better one. Rock guitarists are like owners of "supercars". All that power and performance that they can never use legally. Driving around in a 200mph rocket ship (in a country with a 70mph speed limit) that has only two seats and doesn't have the space to carry a set of golf clubs! As a 4x4 owner I hear all the rhetoric, but In another few weeks I'll be towing blokes like you out of ditches! Edited November 24, 2012 by mentalextra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASainty Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Totally agree with what everyone has already said, the only option was to walk and its a big shame the drummer and vocalist wont follow suit. Give it enough time (and enough bass players that leave) and im sure it will start to wear thin on them too. I am very lucky in my band, the guitarists are open to suggestions about their sound and playing, if they are too loud they turn down without a fuss and they are not control freaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 [quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1353788989' post='1878544'] Such a cliche analogy! I have a better one. Rock guitarists are like owners of "supercars". All that power and performance that they can never use legally. Driving around in a 200mph rocket ship (in a country with a 70mph speed limit) that has only two seats and doesn't have the space to carry a set of golf clubs! As a 4x4 owner I hear all the rhetoric, but In another few weeks I'll be towing blokes like you out of ditches! [/quote] I'll be very happy to take the tow! I did say [i]urban[/i] roads on purpose. Anyway, what good is a cliche without a regular airing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin8708 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Sorry you quit the band . Would have been a great excuse to buy that Orange 8x10 that's for sale here on basschat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 haha, that thought did cross my mind would have broken my back though, lol. They did tell me they had been through 5 bass players in 6 months, saying they were all crap and tried to control them too much, though I'm now getting a slightly different picture. and thanks bassintheface, that is a great article I may have just emailed it to one of the guitarists.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 [quote name='jackers' timestamp='1353798866' post='1878649'] They did tell me they had been through 5 bass players in 6 months, saying they were all crap and tried to control them too much, though I'm now getting a slightly different picture. [/quote] f***ing idiots. So that's 6 bassists in 6/7 months? They're never going to learn if that's how many bass players they've been through. I'm sure sound men talk to each other about particular bands, no doubt that sound man will say negative things about that band to. Christ, I don't get how people can be like that! It's insane! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 What you have to realise with people like this is that their agenda is totally different to ours, I presume most of us agree that regardless of whether you play doom, jazz, indie covers, weddings or something so original no one knows what it is yet the aim is to entertain the crowd? We try and play to a suitable crowd to start with to increase our chances and learn the songs at practice to make it run as smoothly as possible, other than that it's a jam and the crowd should appreciate it for that. Now these guys are all about entertaining themselves so as long as someone is prepared to play bass, drums or sing with them then they are happy. There is a band near me where the whole band have this attitude which meens they gig regular too, I can't describe how bad they are but I have now refused to play on the same bill as them which I promise is not like me at all, they bring the whole evening down imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1353836610' post='1878782'] ... Now these guys are all about entertaining themselves ... [/quote] There are lot like that here too. You may be opening a can of worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 [quote name='jackers' timestamp='1353761876' post='1878188'] I have spoken to them this morning and politely but firmly explained to them what I think about their attitude and rigs, and that it is not going to be worth my time, effort and petrol to keep playing with them. [b]They said some rude things back to me[/b], and that was that. Definitely made the right choice [/quote] At least they seem consistent in their behaviour. You'd think that with all the sound guys they encounter saying the same thing, and now you leaving because of the same issue, that they'd get the message. Still, at least they made your correct decision quite an easy one. Good luck with the next band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1353844545' post='1878863'] There are lot like that here too. You may be opening a can of worms. [/quote] Tbf I think a lot of the people here who come across like that are just passionate about getting their sound just right for the show, this pair have just gone down the spinal tap route, I'm sure we have all got a mental image of them already. Edited November 25, 2012 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1353850608' post='1878926'] I'm sure we have all got a mental image of them already.[/quote] OK then, what HM nickname have they/will they give themselves that they answer to, instead of their actual given name, what colour are their bandanas, and what "product" do they style their hair with for their transformation from day job to Rockstar ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmachine2112 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I was joking earlier about full marshall stack. Don,t they realise that even am AC 30 on full chat is screaminly loud and that,s only 30 watts. The golden rule-backline quiet and let the PA take the strain.Balanced sound is the key. Give the sound man a hand to Superglue their heads to the cabs,turn everything up to 10 or even 11 and walk away to the sound of feedback and screams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 [quote name='bassmachine2112' timestamp='1353856129' post='1878997'] I was joking earlier about full marshall stack. Don,t they realise that even am AC 30 on full chat is screaminly loud and that,s only 30 watts. The golden rule-backline quiet and let the PA take the strain.Balanced sound is the key. Give the sound man a hand to Superglue their heads to the cabs,turn everything up to 10 or even 11 and walk away to the sound of feedback and screams [/quote] There's a lot of mis-information about amps and their outputs. An AC30 at full chat creates more decibels than a 100 watt Marshal with two 4 x 12 cabs. See the latest edition of Guitarist magazine for their test on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmachine2112 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 There you go They need 2 AC 30,S each then problem solved. I do know that in the past touring bands have had dummy Marshall cabs which were made slightly wider to accomadate AC30S.. Wonder what a bass would sound like through one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pendingrequests Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 The suggestion that they should downsize or change their rig isn't realistically going to happen. If I spent a good amount of money and my time investing in my bass rig, then some new guy said to me, "you should change it, its too loud". I wouldn't be best pleased with this new member. Its an unfortunate situation, but the two guitarists will just have to find out the hard way (from a promoter or potential manager or other source) that they are too loud and if they want to push further, they will need to sort it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 it is all very well engrs saying they want this and that..and in an ideal world, then ok... but a band needs a decent amount of volume onstage and for the most part the gigs and P.A spec is a compromise as we don't have the luxury of building the whole stage set from scratch and bespoke. But the onstage sound can't flood into the area the P.A will be working as then you can't mix... you only have sound re-enforcement, but that is mostly a problem in smaller venues where a stage rig can bleed into the general mix... Most players then have to make a compromise...as will the engr and that is ok as long as the end goal for all is to sound as good as poss. Our main problem is that too many engrs aren't very good so they can't adapt when things are less than perfect or time is limited. We generally get the stage sound working and expect them to be able to handle their remit... which is to transfer and embellish our stage sound. We don't want a stage sound where we can't hear everything..we don't play like that and wouldn't tolerate it, tbh. We don't need much FOH EQ.. we need just a bit more than we have as the hall is bigger. Nobody can be oblivious to the end goal though but you have to have references of what that is....which is why you would discuss what you want and expect before the gig/gigs. It doesn't work to just turn up and expect it all to be ok. I am often 'surprised' how unprepared some posters on here seem to be..and what they seem to accept as par for the course and if we have to tell the sound crew, then we will as it is our reputation/name on the bill... but you would be stupid to fall out with the crew beforehand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) [quote name='pendingrequests' timestamp='1353858466' post='1879029'] The suggestion that they should downsize or change their rig isn't realistically going to happen. If I spent a good amount of money and my time investing in my bass rig, then some new guy said to me, "you should change it, its too loud". I wouldn't be best pleased with this new member. Its an unfortunate situation, but the two guitarists will just have to find out the hard way (from a promoter or potential manager or other source) that they are too loud and if they want to push further, they will need to sort it. [/quote] I have invested plenty but would still expect to be told not to use my full rig for gigs where it's not required, if someone is using the wrong gear for the gig when they have other options ie their smaller amp I see no problem in telling them? Edited November 25, 2012 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1353866224' post='1879136'] I have invested plenty but would still expect to be told not to use my full rig for gigs where it's not required, if someone is using the wrong gear for the gig when they have other options ie their smaller amp I see no problem in telling them? [/quote] Yes! Just as a good player knows that not playing is as important as playing, the same is applied to equipment. Until recently I had 210 and 410 cabs, I don't bring all of that to play what ever gig I have booked, I bring what ever gear is needed for that gig. I actually ended up selling the 410 as it was way surplus to requirements. The 210 alone was more than loud enough for the main room at the Cluny in Newcastle. Just because you've bought equipment, doesn't mean it ALL has to be used at every gig. As for spending time investing in my own sound? I never do that, I spend time getting the bands sound right. What I think of my sound is irrelevant as I'm not playing for myself, I'm playing for the band. This is something bass heavey guitarists seemingly fail to do. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 The guitarist I worked with who'd leave his nice little combo at home and lug a JCM800 and 4x12 into the pub. Then he'd put his rig up on a beer crate to "cut down on the boominess". And then he'd walk out into the audience "like Buddy Guy" and his lead would pull the whole thing over. Great times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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