Where (or where not to!) Shop?

[Conan]

Sadly, I really hate going into music shops. I often get the impression that the staff think that the shop is only there for [i]their[/i] convenience, not that of the potential customers. Yes, it must be difficult trying to compete with the online warehouses, but other indistry sectors have similar competition and have raised their game in order to offer something that an online retailer can never offer - genuinely personal service.

Pete's story about the Epiphones is amazing but all too common. Instead of trying to offer something different to the Thomanns of this world, they badmouth them (which is probably bordering on slander) as they know that they cannot compete with them on price.

In the last couple of years I have bought quite a bit of gear, but most of it has been bought second hand from here or a couple of other similar sites. I realise that I am not helping music retailers much, but then again I am happy to buy used gear. It is really only strings that I buy new and once again I have found that the online traders like StringsDirect and Stringbusters offer great prices and good service. Why would I go to a shop to be sneered at because I am not spending a grand on a new guitar?

Imagine if other high street retailers showed such a snobby attitude to their customers? If the butcher laughed in your face because you only wanted a pound of mince and some chicken bones for stock! Or the fishmonger ignored you because you didn't come in to buy the whole tuna from the window display but only a couple of haddock fillets for tea.

I think some music shops deserve to be experiencing hard times. Unless they respond to the current market with more sensitivity, they deserve to go under.

[Joker2807]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1354180741' post='1883030']
Sadly, I really hate going into music shops. I often get the impression that the staff think that the shop is only there for [i]their[/i] convenience, not that of the potential customers. Yes, it must be difficult trying to compete with the online warehouses, but other indistry sectors have similar competition and have raised their game in order to offer something that an online retailer can never offer - genuinely personal service.

Pete's story about the Epiphones is amazing but all too common. Instead of trying to offer something different to the Thomanns of this world, they badmouth them (which is probably bordering on slander) as they know that they cannot compete with them on price.

In the last couple of years I have bought quite a bit of gear, but most of it has been bought second hand from here or a couple of other similar sites. I realise that I am not helping music retailers much, but then again I am happy to buy used gear. It is really only strings that I buy new and once again I have found that the online traders like StringsDirect and Stringbusters offer great prices and good service. Why would I go to a shop to be sneered at because I am not spending a grand on a new guitar?

Imagine if other high street retailers showed such a snobby attitude to their customers? If the butcher laughed in your face because you only wanted a pound of mince and some chicken bones for stock! Or the fishmonger ignored you because you didn't come in to buy the whole tuna from the window display but only a couple of haddock fillets for tea.

I think some music shops deserve to be experiencing hard times. Unless they respond to the current market with more sensitivity, they deserve to go under.
[/quote]

to be honest in future ill buy online.. ill simply go to shops to try out stuff and then buy online.. i didn't want to become one of those guys but after this past week i have lost all faith in them

[Floyd]

Where I'm coming from is that the Gibson quality check as it goes into the Gibson packaging means nothing if a dealer can open it all up, put the guitar on display, sell it on as new when it's been returned etc. It's also pointless (and I wonder if it ever happens) for a dealer to set up a new guitar when it's going to be shipped somewhere where the humidity and temperature is going to be different anyway. All I wanted was an unopened box and as an end customer paying a lot I should be able to get it. I don't know if it's still the same but Gibson used to ship their Custom Shop guitars with security seals on the box which said if there seals are broken , don't accept it. How's that work then with the dealer who insists on opening every box? Ok it's a bit of a rant I know

[JapanAxe]

I'll chip in for Guitar Guitar in Epsom. I called in on the way back from Gatwick to check out some guitar gear (Egnater heads, TC pedals), and they were happy to let me sit in the booth and try what I wanted without hassling me. After I decided that Egnater was [i]not[/i] for me, I had a wander round the Gibsons and got talking to another staff member who clearly knew what he was on about. Also their returns system is very efficient if kit you've bought suddenly dies on you!

Over the years I have also spent a fair few bob at PMT in Oxford, and always got good value and service. It's been a couple of years since I visited so I don't know how they are now.

If you are looking for a first instrument, you could do worse than come to my home town of Swindon. There are 3 independent music shops (Kempsters, John Holmes, Rock'n'Roll) that all do loads of entry-level kit. The downside of this for me is that I now have to visit other towns to find stuff I am interested in!

Denmark Street gets a lot of stick (not least because most of the shops belong to one company), but two of my favourite purchases ('57 RI Strat, '62 RI Precision - both fiesta red!) came from Regent Sounds. Both times I dealt with Crispin - he is a roots'n'rockabilly aficionado with appropriate hairstyle!

A final thought - if you are in serious purchasing mode, it is usually best to avoid Saturdays. That is the day for penniless teen wannabees to practice their metal riffs and mangled RHCP licks on gear they can't even afford the case for. I once was that teen, but if you are planning a serious spend, go on a quieter day when you can enlist a staff member's help for your quest.

Edited November 29, 2012 by JapanAxe

[Conan]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1354181639' post='1883048']avoid Saturdays. That is the day for penniless teen wannabees to practice their metal riffs and mangled RHCP licks on gear they can't even afford the case for. [/quote]

Ah, you say that but...

Once (when I was a similar teen) there was a lad of about 13 who came in with his mam. He asked to try a Gibson Les Paul Gold Top. He played Whole lotta Rosie and Smoke on the water very badly for about five minutes, until his mother said "We'll have it please. Now, can you recommend anyone who gives guitar lessons?"

That particular guitar cost £1500 in around 1981

But yes - your point is generally valid!

[Joker2807]

well update on my situation... i still don't have my bass.

i'm really starting to lose my patience now... if it doesn't come today I am demanding a refund ...

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1354180741' post='1883030']
I think some music shops deserve to be experiencing hard times. Unless they respond to the current market with more sensitivity, they deserve to go under.
[/quote]

I agree. Harsh as it is.

As I'm nowhere near Bass Direct or Bass Gear I can't go and try out there high end gear. The one time I was near one of them, I was late (totally out of my control, trying to get through London traffic) which made the reason I drove out of my way (heading to Manchester to see a band) pointless as I didn't have time to check things through properly. So, I still haven't really properly shopped in a Bass specialist store since the Bass Merchant was run by Darren.

Now, going in non-specialist bass stores is just nowhere near as fun. They never have what you want, then moan when you want a different colour on a £1500 bass.

I've been considering getting either another Bongo or a new Fender, but after waiting almost 6 months for the current Bongo I have incoming, Im sure I dare lay down half the money in this economy.

If a store was to go down, with your deposit, do you get it back if you've put it on a credit card?

[Matt P]

i can't really help you with shops local to you but in Newcastle i'd say that they're all pretty good with the exception of GuitarGuitar!

Sounds live are always helpful and patient wth me, Windows have got a lot better in recent years and my last proper visit was actually a real joy, and The Guitar Shop (small place that dosn't really have any bass gear but has some wonderful skinny stringed 6's) is excellent and has accounted for quite alot of my hard earned over the years.

But i've yet to have any joy in Guitar Guitar, i get ignored most of the time and when i do ask questions it feels like i'm only being spoken to in the hope that i'll go away! i've been in there with cash in my pocket ready to buy and then just walked out because of the service, it's as if they don't actually want to sell you any of their precious instruments!

Matt

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Joker2807' timestamp='1354183052' post='1883084']
well update on my situation... i still don't have my bass.

i'm really starting to lose my patience now... if it doesn't come today I am demanding a refund ...
[/quote]

if they mess you about today, get your money back and shop elsewhere. Soundslive have some of the 2011 Fender's left still, and Im sure they will match the price. In fact, loads of the stores have them on sale.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Matt P' timestamp='1354184879' post='1883124']
i But i've yet to have any joy in Guitar Guitar, i get ignored most of the time and when i do ask questions it feels like i'm only being spoken to in the hope that i'll go away! i've been in there with cash in my pocket ready to buy and then just walked out because of the service, it's as if they don't actually want to sell you any of their precious instruments!

Matt
[/quote]

Plus one. I love northerners, but the usual friendly atmosphere does not extend into their shop.

[Marvin]

If one has the misfortune to live in the sticks, choice is highly limited.

As an inmate of North Devon...Mansons is quite nice, staff very pleasant and helpful when I've been in there. I'd always go back. Very decent selection of bass equipment. Project Music, also in Exeter, I've found them to be decent sorts.

That's about it for me.

Online, I've used GAK and Gear4Music occasionally, never had a problem.

[Musky]

[quote name='Floyd' timestamp='1354181620' post='1883046']
Where I'm coming from is that the Gibson quality check as it goes into the Gibson packaging means nothing if a dealer can open it all up, put the guitar on display, sell it on as new when it's been returned etc. It's also pointless (and I wonder if it ever happens) for a dealer to set up a new guitar when it's going to be shipped somewhere where the humidity and temperature is going to be different anyway. All I wanted was an unopened box and as an end customer paying a lot I should be able to get it. I don't know if it's still the same but Gibson used to ship their Custom Shop guitars with security seals on the box which said if there seals are broken , don't accept it. How's that work then with the dealer who insists on opening every box? Ok it's a bit of a rant I know
[/quote]
Fair enough really. As a customer you should be able to get what you want, whatever keeps you happy (within reason! )

IME however, unless things have changed recently Gibson's quality check is non-existant. I'd most definitely expect a new bass to have been set up by the shop before buying one, even though I might want it set up again later to suit my tastes. That's one reason to buy in person from a decent dealer - you can have a word and ask them to set it up to your preferences in the first place.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1354184874' post='1883122']
I've been considering getting either another Bongo or a new Fender, but after waiting almost 6 months for the current Bongo I have incoming, Im sure I dare lay down half the money in this economy.

If a store was to go down, with your deposit, do you get it back if you've put it on a credit card?
[/quote]

I would hope so. My understanding is that your contract would be with the credit card company so if the goods are not supplied then they'll give you a full refund (for items over £100 anyway).

Not entirely sure how this works with deposits though.

[mentalextra]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1354185101' post='1883131']
Plus one. I love northerners, but the usual friendly atmosphere does not extend into their shop.
[/quote]

I dont want to turn this into a north and south thread but as a Londoner I have yet to experience this "friendly northern welcome". I keep on hearing about it but mostly from northerners. I have a good friend who lives in Bolton and I get the usual banter from him about living down south. But, his young lady works in London frequently and I have often pointed out that in a metropolitan city like this you are not judged by your accent or culture. I live in a road of maybe 100 houses and there are in excess of 30 different nationalites and religious faiths but we all bump along nicely. But, when I go to my mate in Bolton and open my mouth in his local corner shop its like a 'western' when the stranger walks in the saloon and the piano stops playing! My brother in law lived in Holmsforth for over 10yrs. He is a librarian and loves the countryside. He was literally hounded out of his home because of small minded idiots.

But, back to music shops. I have posted on here about my experiences with music shops and unless you are in the clique, you dont get a great experience. Only 'shopkeepers' are convinced that they are offering a service but I really dont think they know what it is. Basically, why should I pay more for a guitar in a small shop just because the guy smiles at me when he takes my money! How much value can I put on service when 99% of the buying decision is price. Like many people on here I like to browse and see whats what in the market place and I have heard some awful advice offered to newbies or parents buying presents for aspiring musicians.

Small shops need the support of the buying public but like I said, its all about the price. My local butcher has the same quality meat as Tesco, but why should I pay more for it there. You cant blame the big box shifters for all this either. I remember being a little tot and shopping with my old mum back in the '60s. She would tell me all the tricks the shop keepers would get up to. Displaying the nice apples and bagging up the manky ones from 'the back'. Weighing up meat covered in fat in the butchers! etc A shops first priority is to make money after all, and that is at the customers expense. The only alternative is to create an association and approach manufactures direct but who will do that! Or, hope that Jesus, in the second comming, opens a music shop specialising in bass guitars

[skej21]

[quote name='Floyd' timestamp='1354175862' post='1882963']
Digital Village hasn't been good for me. I bought a Gibson guitar off them a couple of years ago. All the Gibson security seals on the box were broken. I always suspected it was returned.
[/quote]

In the defence of the shop, they've bought the guitar and will want to check it for damage/faults/set up etc BEFORE selling it on to a customer. Also, with Gibson's recent history of dreadful quality control, i'd think they were idiots if they didnt open it to check it over. How are they going to do that without opening the box?

It's this kind of opposing opinion that makes customer service in music retail so difficult. What's ideal for one customer will most likely result in the loss if another.

Edited November 29, 2012 by skej21

[paul_5]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1354134145' post='1882616']
Went into the new Reidy's in Blackburn Lancs the other day & was greeted as though I'd taken a dump in the doorway as I entered; obviously geared up to catch the students from the college next door but the 6 or 7 staff in there were failing miserably at trying to fool each other they were busy.
[/quote]

That's been my experience of them too - they're not terribly knowledgeable or helpful either.

[Matt P]

i'm not going to get int a northerners vs southerners debate except to say that i'm a southerner who moved up here against my will when my family relocated for my Dad's work, i originally planned to move away as soon as i was old enough, but that was 15 years ago and it would take a pretty big crowbar to get me to leave the north-east now!

i was actually thinking the other day that it would be great to have some kind of BassChat approved/reccomended retailer scheme, a sticker or notice that could be awarded to those shops that go above and beyond the regular customer service, like the good pub guide but for music shops. if you see the latest sticker in the window then you know that you're going to get good service. it would probably be too much work to implement but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

matt

[chrismuzz]

Best 'real world' stores I've been to are Academy Of Sound in Stoke on Trent, and Phoenix Soundworks which is somewhere in Northamptonshire. They both have friendly, knowledgeable staff who made me feel comfortable and not pressured into a sale.

As far as online stores, I've used Absolute Music, GAK, Gear4music, and effectpowersupplies.com and they were all great. I had a problem with an amp from GAK a few months after buying it, so they collected it, got it repaired, and sent it back within a week! effectpowersupplies were incredibly helpful when I tried to buy an out of stock item. Haven't dealt with customer services on the others.

Digital Village (DV247.com) on the other hand, I would avoid like the plague. I made a large order with them a couple of years ago, and spent the next few months being messed around with items not being in stock, then being in stock, then not again. They wouldn't even split my order into things that were or weren't available and kept lying about when they were due to receive them. I cancelled the order in the end and got a refund, which in all fairness I didn't have to wait long for.

Edited November 29, 2012 by chrismuzz

[BigRedX]

TBH I would suspect that the majority of regular posters here on Basschat have outgrown what the average music shop can offer.In my case even my choice of strings and picks is too exotic for most to have in stock.

I'm also not entirely convinced that being able to try before you buy is of any real value these days. Pretty much any modern instrument costing over £100 is going to be decent - certainly none drop to the low standards of budget instruments from the 60s and 70s. Nearly all the guitars and basses I've bought in the last 15 years have been without playing them first. In fact the only bass that I had a go on in the last 10 years before deciding to buy was one of the few I've sold. It turned out that a couple of hours hands on experience in the shop weren't the same as a couple of weeks' rehearsal and gigs to realise that the instrument wasn't for me.

[Lozz196]

Shops/on-line retailers I`ve used where the service has been good:
PMT, Soundslive, GAK, DV247, Gig-Gear, Gear4Music, Thomann, Coda Music, Music Dept (St Albans) Fretz (Hemel) - am sure there are more.

Where they`ve not been good:
None - I must have got lucky.

[Conan]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1354186519' post='1883160']
A shops first priority is to make money after all, and that is at the customers expense. [/quote]

Any shop with exclusively that attitude is not going to last very long, in any market sector.

A good shop can be many things to many people. Yes, nobody is going to open a shop with the intention of losing money - but profit is surely only one factor in running a successful shop?

Caring about your stock and your customers. Providing good service. These are the things that earn you a loyal customer base. It can still happen, and I can give examples - but sadly none of them are music shops...

Edited November 29, 2012 by Conan

[mentalextra]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1354193576' post='1883332']
Any shop with exclusively that attitude is not going to last very long, in any market sector.

A good shop can be many things to many people. Yes, nobody is going to open a shop with the intention of losing money - but profit is surely only one factor in running a successful shop?

Caring about your stock and your customers. Providing good service. These are the things that earn you a loyal customer base. It can still happen, and I can give examples - but sadly none of them are music shops...
[/quote]

The largest and most successful business try and make money as a priority! Why else would you want to run a shop! Although, from my experience lots of shops are being run just for the 'social event' especially when the manager is not around!

Edited November 29, 2012 by mentalextra

[Musicman20]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1354186519' post='1883160']
I dont want to turn this into a north and south thread but as a Londoner I have yet to experience this "friendly northern welcome". I keep on hearing about it but mostly from northerners. I have a good friend who lives in Bolton and I get the usual banter from him about living down south. But, his young lady works in London frequently and I have often pointed out that in a metropolitan city like this you are not judged by your accent or culture. I live in a road of maybe 100 houses and there are in excess of 30 different nationalites and religious faiths but we all bump along nicely. But, when I go to my mate in Bolton and open my mouth in his local corner shop its like a 'western' when the stranger walks in the saloon and the piano stops playing! My brother in law lived in Holmsforth for over 10yrs. He is a librarian and loves the countryside. He was literally hounded out of his home because of small minded idiots.
[/quote]

I wasn't for a second trying to say anything other than 'most of the people I've met in Newcastle are REALLY friendly'. That's the truth.

I've lived in Leeds, Nottingham, Grimsby and Newcastle. Grimsby is the home town (unfortunately) but I won't be moving back. No city offers a life like Newcastle.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Matt P' timestamp='1354188780' post='1883220']i was actually thinking the other day that it would be great to have some kind of BassChat approved/reccomended retailer scheme, a sticker or notice that could be awarded to those shops that go above and beyond the regular customer service.

matt
[/quote]

Not a bad idea, kinda [i]"Our bass section is Basschat.co.uk approved"[/i]? The shop may want facts & figures to see if they feel it's worthwhile, or maybe want to wait until after GuitarChat, Drumchat, VocalsChat and ThemshakeyeggshapedthingsthatsoundlikelittlemaraccasChat are all up and amalgamated to make it a do-able.
Course any shop that doesn't rate BassChat doesn't deserve a rating.

[Conan]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1354200150' post='1883467']
No city offers a life like Newcastle.
[/quote]