Can the X Factor judges hear what we hear on the TV?

[gafbass02]

Yeah he went on, did well, had an oddly little amount of screen time considering their popularity, apparently that was so it seemed less 'off' went they went or some such. Theywere already a VERY busy act with some amazing gigs, now they can add 'as seen onX factor' to their credentials and presumably made some contacts and can charge more now.

[leschirons]

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1354414652' post='1885782']
I believe you have missed the point of doddy's statement. It looks to me like he is suggesting that possible winners are chosen well in advance, irrespective of their musical talent (or lack thereof), and so it isn't really a singing or music contest, but a way to get people to buy albums at x-mas.

Please correct me if I'm wrong Doddy
[/quote]

Not sure if I agree with this as none of the production companies would want to take the risk of someone blowing the whistle however, I do believe that this competition will probably be decided upon the merits of the biggest sob story that some of the contestants seem to be spouting off about before each song.

Whilst stories of berievement and broken families are traumatic and serious issues, I can't see the relevence in a singing competition (wrong smiley but it 's the most cynical looking one that I could find)

Anyway, I'll keep the Toshiba as the it appears he actually was sh*te.

[JapanAxe]

The judges are not looking for the same things that you or I would be, say as musicians auditioning a singer. For them, and for Simon Cowell in particular, the ideal winner will make the programme format owners lots of money by:[list]
[*]Selling records on the back of their looks, personality etc;
[*]Not questioning the contract they have to sign;
[*]Recording formulaic songs fed to them by the organisers' writing team (and not pester Simon with their own compositions, no matter how good); and
[*]Generally doing as they are told.
[/list]
In short, they are after a product they can sell, and a publishing rights revenue stream. If the contestant can more-or-less sing, so much the better!

When I criticise contestants for going off key, Mrs Axe always claims that I am not qualified to do so because I'm not performing in front of millions on national TV. I always reply that I get paid for my performances in less prestigious venues, and as a jobbing musician for over 20 years I am perfectly qualified to assess whether or not a singer makes the grade!

[stingrayPete1977]

Has Leona Lewis got a personality? I thought it was locked away in a tin somewhere with Andy Murray's?

[Lozz196]

To the OPs question re Jahmene, I agree. Whilst he has a good voice - as in tone of voice - and can sing very well, those bits where he hits notes, but has to either then go up or down, as he wasn`t on pitch the first time have been noticeable all the way through the series. I suppose what they`re looking for is a studio voice, so this aspect can be worked on, as they keep saying "recording artist".

[discreet]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1354408020' post='1885743']...performance on the night isn't a major factor. Decisions have been made long ago.[/quote][quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1354440010' post='1885872']
...They know exactly who they are going to pick before the competition has even started...[/quote]

Doesn't surprise me in the least. 100% of TV is a sham - that's the essential nature of the medium.

Edited December 2, 2012 by discreet

[steantval]

Everyone should vote for the Liverpool guy (club singer), if he wins that would be the last we would see of Cowell's X Factor.

I have a feeling this is happening at the moment.

[ahpook]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1354442018' post='1885898']
At the end of the day most televisions I have seen have an off switch
[/quote]

and perhaps more importantly, an on switch

[TimR]

The boy band will get signed. Who wins doesn't count, it's who is in the final two. The only time the public vote counts is after the judges have decided who they want to keep. It gives us an illusion of having a say.

Don't forget that in general people only see what they want to believe.

[JohnFitzgerald]

It's very noticable with most of them.
The moment they have to hold a note for any length of time and sing it in full belt voice (which most of them can't) they bottle it and opt instead for the vocal gymnastics, which the judges seem to mistake for talent.
If it was truly a vocal ability competition, there would be some prescribed tests that they had to pass.

It isn't, so there aren't.

I say this with no hint of delusion or arrogance.
The singer in my covers band would wipe the floor with anyone I've ever seen on any of these talent shows.
Doesn't mean he'd ever make it, because he wouldn't.
He couldn't handle the system and the system couldn't handle him.

[risingson]

[quote name='Angel' timestamp='1354437572' post='1885855']
No way is it decided before. You could never get away with that when the public are paying to vote. The S*** really hit the fan a few years ago when they figured that 'some' people voted and they weren't counted on some shows.

I don't watch the show, but I have seen Jahmene's first audition and I have to say that I loved it. Not sure what else he's done though.
[/quote]

I think (rather, I'm convinced) it is decided, but rather than them manipulating phone votes which is completely illegal, they will manipulate everything else aside from the voting.

[xgsjx]

I could be wrong, but the way I see it is that they choose the couple of people who are either really good singers or have a visual charm that will sell with a passable voice (the main sellable product), and the rest of the contestants are for entertainment value only (like Chico or those 2 kids with the silly hair).
They know that the main products are the ones in the final & they need the others to provide entertainment & play with the punter's emotions.

Like Monty Python says, "And now for our talent spotting contest, and let's see if you can spot any talent amongst this lot!".

[jackers]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1354454166' post='1886067']
I think (rather, I'm convinced) it is decided, but rather than them manipulating phone votes which is completely illegal, they will manipulate everything else aside from the voting.
[/quote]

^ this. I think the way it probably works is that the judges/show have their favourites and winners picked out already, and the phone vote is to keep any of the others in who aren't pre-selected. That way the public get their say, and nothing illegal goes on.

[arthurhenry]

It's a TV programme. It's scripted, edited, acted and produced in the same way as Coronation street, On the buses, or the News at ten. I'm sure they do what they need to in order to stay on the right side of the law as far as people paying to vote is concerned, but it's just an entertainment show for idiots. Do people really think the whole thing was put together in order to discover talent?

[mentalextra]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1354457221' post='1886111']
It's a TV programme. It's scripted, edited, acted and produced in the same way as Coronation street, On the buses, or the News at ten. I'm sure they do what they need to in order to stay on the right side of the law as far as people paying to vote is concerned, but it's just an entertainment show for idiots. Do people really think the whole thing was put together in order to discover talent?
[/quote]

No, people really 'do' think that its a real competiton!

The same people think that "reality tv" is real!

[TimR]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1354457221' post='1886111']
It's a TV programme. It's scripted, edited, acted and produced in the same way as Coronation street, On the buses, or the News at ten. I'm sure they do what they need to in order to stay on the right side of the law as far as people paying to vote is concerned, but it's just an entertainment show for idiots. Do people really think the whole thing was put together in order to discover talent?
[/quote]

Are you seriously comparing X-factor to that high quality comedy On the Buses. Have you even seen the X-factor? Reg Varney would wipe the floor with most of the contestants.
News at 10? Now don't get be started.....

[xilddx]

[quote name='Kongo' timestamp='1354406922' post='1885737']
A music judge that can't hear mistakes eh? Seems legit. :-P
But in seriousness, the show influences people into thinking this is what is good and what they should buy etc...targets the musically dumb.
That's my opinion.
[/quote]
[quote name='Joker2807' timestamp='1354413364' post='1885775']
i hate the x factor with a passion it represents everything that is wrong with the music industry today
[/quote]

Guys, this is nonsense I'm afraid. The show does not influence and distort the music market, it is a PRODUCT of the music market.

As for this concept of the 'musically dumb', well most of us on here are musically dumb, as is the rest of the public. That's why there is simple popular and rock music which sells by the bucketload, and a much smaller market for jazz, avant garde and orchestral music.

People in general don't want to make the effort to develop their musical tastes because they have no concept of the pleasures that may bring. Same with food, clothing, home decor, art, literature and TV .. That's why in Britain today, there will be 10 million people wearing their SuperDry outfit in their magnolia homes with the clip framed Athena poster of a hunk with a baby above the mantlepiece, copy of Fifty Shades of Whatever on the Ikea coffee table, watching the X Factor, while eating fried chicken from a bucket, and looking forward spinning their Adele CD afterwards. Doesn't make them 'dumb' or worthy of hubristic criticism does it?

[JTUK]

I don't know who the judges are but can't recall any real singers so don't doubt they can't hear the pitch.

Cheryl, Danni, Louis, Cowell..??? and whoever else..what do they really know about singing...??
They might know what sells and how to manipulate a market, but they aren't musical, IMO.

Cowell kicked off Dan Pearce from his bootcamp and kept the likes of Ollie Murs....that tells you all you need to know about the show..... and him
Barlow has a reasonable voice, so would expect more from him, justabout.

The only slack you might cut the contestants is that they are suddenly on a BIG stage in front of TV and that is some jump if they haven't even put any time into performing
live..at all...

[discreet]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1354459736' post='1886145']
...there will be 10 million people wearing their SuperDry outfit in their magnolia homes with the clip framed Athena poster of a hunk with a baby above the mantlepiece, copy of Fifty Shades of Whatever on the Ikea coffee table, watching the X Factor, while eating fried chicken from a bucket, and looking forward spinning their Adele CD afterwards. Doesn't make them 'dumb' or worthy of hubristic criticism does it?[/quote]

Yes.

[TimR]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1354459736' post='1886145']
...
That's why in Britain today, there will be 10 million people wearing their SuperDry outfit in their magnolia homes with the clip framed Athena poster of a hunk with a baby above the mantlepiece, copy of Fifty Shades of Whatever on the Ikea coffee table, watching the X Factor, while eating fried chicken from a bucket, and looking forward spinning their Adele CD afterwards. Doesn't make them 'dumb' or worthy of hubristic criticism does it?
[/quote]

OI! Have you been peeking through my net curtains! You've missed my tattoos and Mondeo off your list there.

Edited December 2, 2012 by TimR

[TimR]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1354460220' post='1886148']
...
Barlow has a reasonable voice, so would expect more from him, justabout.
...
[/quote]

I'm really confused about Barlow. One moment he saying its a singing contest, the next he's saying it's not a singing contest, they're looking for the x-factor. If the judges don't actually know what they're judging on what's the point.

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1354460940' post='1886158']
I'm really confused about Barlow. One moment he saying its a singing contest, the next he's saying it's not a singing contest, they're looking for the x-factor. If the judges don't actually know what they're judging on what's the point.
[/quote]
To make an entertainment programme with mass appeal, in order to sell high cost advertising space.

[Monckyman]

As above, and the last two pages since Doddys post have been a waste of bandwidth you could have used to argue about custom bone nuts on your "fiver".
X factor is IMO an extended advert designed to sell product to people who care more about having and expressing an opinion that may count towards the "winning" selection than it`s actual value as music.
The involvement is what sells, the by product is a CD and a video and maybe a tour and most importantly, newspapers.
The back story is what sells it to the "voters"irregardless of the lack of actual musical talent.
The back story is what you hear burbled out on breakfast tv by yet more celebrities.
When the act or it`s ability isn`t enough, you are invited to care about the judges and their lifestyles,partners,drunken binges etc.
The fact that some of you here expressed quite passionate opinions about rather bland singers after minimal exposure proves it works very well.
You are involved, have an opinion, care...
Imagine how it feels after watching it for years....
Me, I prefer listening to a bit of music.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Monckyman

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1354402893' post='1885700']
Who cares?
[/quote]


+1

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1354407495' post='1885741']
I think it's worth mentioning that I know people who have actually been invited to go on
both X Factor and Britain's Got Talent and are pretty much guaranteed to do pretty well
on them.
[/quote]

What's also interesting is that some of the novelty/eccentric/no-hoper acts you see the judges sneering at in the early rounds are there by invitation too. This happened to the drummer from my band (who also makes some very odd youtube videos). He was approached to appear on BGT, on the understanding that he was there purely to provide a few seconds of footage, not actually as an entrant.