MiltyG565 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Ok, so i know what the difference between a valve state amp and a solid state amp is. A valve state amp uses the valves to amplify the input sound, while a solid state uses clever circuitry to amplify the sound, right? So that's all fine and dandy and honky dorey. So would anybody explain what a few more amp parts and terms are please? Valve preamp. I know it's a preamp with a valve, but why? "All valve", how does this differ from valve preamp? Power amp. Just used to amplify without valves? Those are the only ones that i can remember right now, but any help would be great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) In simple terms most amps have a pre amp to amplify the tiny voltage the guitars pickup creates, that amplified signal goes to the eq section of the amps controls but is still only a smallish voltage, too small to power a decent speaker at least so it then goes to the power amp usually controlled by the master volume knob. So you could have a solid state pre amp and power amp (solid state) a valve pre amp and valve power amp (all valve) Or a combination of the two usually valve pre amp and solid state power amp. Just to confuse you my ShuttleMax 9.2 has both a solid-state pre amp and eq and a valve powered eq which can be selected on their own or mixed together, that signal then goes to a 900 watt solid state (class D) power amp. It's one of the most flexible all in one amps ever made not just a solid-state pre amp with a valve that can be added in for effect like most amps. As the amplifier sections are seperate you can use the same preamp and eq controls with any size power amp hence all the versions of the same amp but bigger output models. The main reason valve pre amps exist is taste, a valve can give a more natural and sometimes fuller sound, it can also be easily overdriven to create just the right ammount of distortion at the lower volume before going to the power amp so you can have a bit of dirt even at practice volumes. Does that help? Edited December 2, 2012 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 You don't really need to know the differences to much, just find what works best for you. Valve power amps or 'All Valve' amps usually way a ton and the rest as they need a humungo transformer. Valve power amps usually start getting compressed in what can be described as more 'natural' and start adding to the overall overdrive sound. Solid state can still way a boat load but there a lot of light weight stuff that doesn't these days. Personally there isn't much difference in terms of sound that can be audible enough to hear in a mix with drums and guitar. Although due to the way valves work there is more harmonic distortion which in my opinion makes the bass more audible in general particularly around the midrange. That being said the Mark Bass little mark Tube has a mx knob between solid state and valve preamps and there is a volume difference between the two but adjusting that they both sound pretty darn similar, in a blind test I would only be able to tell due to the slight volume increase on the valve side. My preference is a valve preamp due to I feel they are more transparent but a very good solid state preamp can be just as transparent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 There was another thread knocking about for ages on this topic. Always good for another go though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 It's pinned at the top of this page! http://basschat.co.uk/topic/294-valve-amps-vs-solid-state/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I don't see the op as a vs argument thread, just that he wanted to understand the terms used. I'm sure they are in the pinned thread but anything containing vs is normally just a which bass is best for metal, do I need to read and why do people use five string basses if billy Sheehan doesn't thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Just get a DB750 and you'll need need to worry about it ever again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1354440359' post='1885879'] In simple terms most amps have a pre amp to amplify the tiny voltage the guitars pickup creates, that amplified signal goes to the eq section of the amps controls but is still only a smallish voltage, too small to power a decent speaker at least so it then goes to the power amp usually controlled by the master volume knob. So you could have a solid state pre amp and power amp (solid state) a valve pre amp and valve power amp (all valve) Or a combination of the two usually valve pre amp and solid state power amp. Just to confuse you my ShuttleMax 9.2 has both a solid-state pre amp and eq and a valve powered eq which can be selected on their own or mixed together, that signal then goes to a 900 watt solid state (class D) power amp. It's one of the most flexible all in one amps ever made not just a solid-state pre amp with a valve that can be added in for effect like most amps. As the amplifier sections are seperate you can use the same preamp and eq controls with any size power amp hence all the versions of the same amp but bigger output models. The main reason valve pre amps exist is taste, a valve can give a more natural and sometimes fuller sound, it can also be easily overdriven to create just the right ammount of distortion at the lower volume before going to the power amp so you can have a bit of dirt even at practice volumes. Does that help? [/quote] Yes, that helps immensely, thank you How is the wrist these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1354448177' post='1885975'] It's pinned at the top of this page! [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/294-valve-amps-vs-solid-state/"]http://basschat.co.u...vs-solid-state/[/url] [/quote] Em, no it isn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1354460797' post='1886155'] Just get a DB750 and you'll need need to worry about it ever again... [/quote] I'd rather just keep my ashdown ABM 400, if that's ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1354422199' post='1885812'] Valve preamp. I know it's a preamp with a valve, but why? "All valve", how does this differ from valve preamp? Power amp. Just used to amplify without valves? [/quote] As Pete says, preamps deal with the low signal inputs from instruments and boost them to a level the power amp can use. All the tone controls, switching and any other gubbins the your amp might sport happens in the preamp. The power amp just makes things louder. Either of these stages can be valve, SS or a hybrid of the two. However, just to complicate things a little, both preamps and power amps may contain both valve and SS components. 'Valve' preamps may contain a solitary valve and have all the EQ dealt with by SS circuitry. There has been some debate as to exactly how much difference a single valve used in this way makes to the overall sound, with some claiming the valve is included purely for marketing purposes. I really don't have the electrical knowledge to make any judgement, but it's something you should be aware of and it's why some manufacturers might declare their preamps 'all valve'. If a preamp has an active EQ it will most likely have more than one valve - although a passive EQ need not. Similarly, power amps can have valve or SS power stages. However power supplies can also have valve or SS rectification, and many all valve amps do in act use SS rectifiers. As for any aural differences between the designs, let your ears decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 All the best stuff about valve amp sound is in the power amp. Also the expensive heavy part is there. Luckily the part people buy is the word 'valve' hence prevalence of valve preamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1354462057' post='1886178'] I'd rather just keep my ashdown ABM 400, if that's ok? [/quote] sure, if you make do with that, then keep it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1354461991' post='1886175'] Yes, that helps immensely, thank you How is the wrist these days? [/quote] No problem I tried to keep it simple before the boffins get here to amaze you with their knowledge! Had my operation and the cast comes off 2 weeks on Monday, it's already quite stiff so I will need physio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1354463964' post='1886215'] No problem I tried to keep it simple before the boffins get here to amaze you with their knowledge! Had my operation and the cast comes off 2 weeks on Monday, it's already quite stiff so I will need physio [/quote] haha, as they inevitably will! Cheers pete. Same issue with my leg BTW. did a real number on it last night get well soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 When it comes down to it - there's no real difference. They're both boxes that you stick a bass lead in one end and a speaker lead out of the other ..... and you end up getting a deep tone. There are plenty of good, brilliant, band and terrible examples of both. Just a case of finding a bass amp that you like the look, sound and features of - that also fits your budget. Best bit is to get out there and test 'em, listen to 'em on ebay, read the reviews etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1354465340' post='1886255'] When it comes down to it - there's no real difference. They're both boxes that you stick a bass lead in one end and a speaker lead out of the other ..... and you end up getting a deep tone. There are plenty of good, brilliant, band and terrible examples of both. Just a case of finding a bass amp that you like the look, sound and features of - that also fits your budget. Best bit is to get out there and test 'em, listen to 'em on ebay, read the reviews etc. [/quote] That's a bit of an over-simplification? I have an amp that i like, i just wanted to know more about the internals and how they operate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1354465468' post='1886257'] That's a bit of an over-simplification? I have an amp that i like, i just wanted to know more about the internals and how they operate. [/quote] Massively. But need to get specific with the amp to figure how it works, because its individual to models, can run them in different ways even if valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1354465468' post='1886257'] That's a bit of an over-simplification? I have an amp that i like, i just wanted to know more about the internals and how they operate. [/quote] Aha. Okay. In that case, I have no idea. Sorry. What's inside doesn't interest me in the slightest. I just plug 'em in and they either make the sound I like or they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1354468706' post='1886308'] Aha. Okay. In that case, I have no idea. Sorry. What's inside doesn't interest me in the slightest. I just plug 'em in and they either make the sound I like or they don't. [/quote] That's absolutely fine, but i want to know a bit more. I'm just one of those people who can't stand not knowing things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 You don't need legs to play bass! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1354472606' post='1886385'] You don't need legs to play bass! Lol [/quote] Haha, that's true, but i would have to lie down to play. You could play a lapsteel while you are "out of action" i suppose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) I think I could manage playing with it held like an upright, enough to keep going to practice and go over the simple songs but the cast is under my palm so I cant really get a neck between it and my fingers what you done to your leg? Edited December 2, 2012 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1354479592' post='1886510'] I think I could manage playing with it held like an upright, enough to keep going to practice and go over the simple songs but the cast is under my palm so I cant really get a neck between it and my fingers what you done to your leg? [/quote] aw that sucks man. I did nothing to my leg. I can't explain it so... it was God. (just a joke, no true malice behind it) But i dunno, my leg is just eternally and progressively sore. hopefully my MRI scan results will be back soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1354462007' post='1886176'] Em, no it isn't? [/quote] Technically correct, but it is indeed pinned at the top of the Amps and Cabs forum, which is what Jack meant: http://basschat.co.uk/forum/5-amps-and-cabs/ There's a lot to read in that thread, but of course your question was already answered very well by StingrayPete. best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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