strange tuning of those funny catgut guitars, why?

[iconic]

I seem to get some eyebrows raised when talking open string tuning with guitar players, the pennies just dropped!
I mean I know bass's are tuned 'properly' in 4ths and 5th open is a C....then I find that guitars use an open B, that's a third, then go back to 4ths for the 6th open being an open E.

I'm sure there's a good reason.....why?

It's taken me some time but the more I play and study bass I think they shouldn't be lumped together with guitars, seems they only look similar!
......what with strange devils tuning and cheating capo'o I'll be checking my change more often if served by a guitarist!

Edited December 2, 2012 by iconic

[Happy Jack]

Standard tuning provides simple fingering for many [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_chord"]chords[/url] and the ability to play common [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_%28music%29"]scales[/url] with reasonable left-hand movement. The separation of the first (e') and second ( string, as well as the separation between the third (g), fourth (d), fifth (A), and sixth (E) strings by a five-semitone interval (a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_fourth"]perfect fourth[/url]) allows notes of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_scale"]chromatic scale[/url] to be played with each of the four fingers of the left hand controlling one of the first four [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fret"]frets[/url] (index finger on fret 1, little finger on fret 4, etc.) only when the hand is in the first position; otherwise, the four fingers must stretch to cover five frets.

The separation of the second (, and third (g) string is by a four-[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitone"]semitone[/url] interval (a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_third"]major third[/url]). The irregular major-third provides B and E as open notes, which is convenient for many chords. On the other hand, the irregular major-third breaks the fingering patterns of scales and chords, so that guitarists have to memorize three-to-four chord-shapes for each chord. Scales and chords are simplified by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-fourths_tuning"]all-fourths tuning[/url] and other [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_tuning"]regular tunings[/url], which maintain the same [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_interval"]musical interval[/url] between consecutive open-string notes; such regular tunings are discussed below.

[color=#ff0000]Wikipaedia is your friend.[/color]

[JapanAxe]

You're dead right [b]iconic[/b], the bass guitar is a solid-body adaptation of the double bass, which is a member of the string family of the orchestra. The double bass is the odd one out anyway, as it is tuned in fourths (E-A-D-G low to high) whereas the rest are tuned in fifths (e.g. violin G-D-A-E low to high).

Edited December 2, 2012 by JapanAxe

[iconic]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1354445945' post='1885945']
Standard tuning provides simple fingering for many [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_chord"]chords[/url] and the ability to play common [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_%28music%29"]scales[/url] with reasonable left-hand movement. The separation of the first (e') and second ( string, as well as the separation between the third (g), fourth (d), fifth (A), and sixth (E) strings by a five-semitone interval (a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_fourth"]perfect fourth[/url]) allows notes of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_scale"]chromatic scale[/url] to be played with each of the four fingers of the left hand controlling one of the first four [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fret"]frets[/url] (index finger on fret 1, little finger on fret 4, etc.) only when the hand is in the first position; otherwise, the four fingers must stretch to cover five frets.

The separation of the second (, and third (g) string is by a four-[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitone"]semitone[/url] interval (a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_third"]major third[/url]). The irregular major-third provides B and E as open notes, which is convenient for many chords. On the other hand, the irregular major-third breaks the fingering patterns of scales and chords, so that guitarists have to memorize three-to-four chord-shapes for each chord. Scales and chords are simplified by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-fourths_tuning"]all-fourths tuning[/url] and other [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_tuning"]regular tunings[/url], which maintain the same [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_interval"]musical interval[/url] between consecutive open-string notes; such regular tunings are discussed below.

[color=#ff0000]Wikipaedia is your friend.[/color]
[/quote]

Hmm, that's just what I, err, was thinking, only put far better!

.....so its simply easier to tune this way to keep it down the end of the neck?

[BigRedX]

I would have thought the main reason the double bass is tuned to 4ths rather than 5ths is so that scales can still be played without needing to move the hand position.

On guitars tuning is all about chords. If you tuned in 4ths all the way across the neck you end up with the highest string being F instead of E which leads to some fairly tortuous fingering to make the chord shapes. There's also a good reason for using drop D tuning (DADGBE) for some styles of music as it makes chords with 5ths, 6ths and 7ths very easy to play, but I've yet to find a good reason to match this tuning on the bass.

[alyctes]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1354446976' post='1885955']
You're dead right [b]iconic[/b], the bass guitar is a solid-body adaptation of the double bass, which is a member of the string family of the orchestra. The double bass is the odd one out anyway, as it is tuned in fourths (E-A-D-G low to high) whereas the rest are tuned in fifths (e.g. violin G-D-A-E low to high).
[/quote]

I have heard that double basses are technically viols rather than violins, in historical terms. Violins (violin proper, viola, cello) are tuned in fifths and have a different body shape to viols, which are tuned in fourths. The different body shape shows at the neck joint (violins are rounded, where viol bodies come to a point) and at the cutouts (violins have those ornate points, where viols are plain and squared-off).

But I'd definitely want to tune in fourths in the double-bass register anyway, so that may be beside the point.