BC's new classifieds section - your opinions please

[Conan]

[quote name='mr zed' timestamp='1354626097' post='1888265']
Yep - pay per ad is the fairest way. If someone only sells one item within a year, the suggested £20 fee may be off-putting. If they sell 10 items the £20 fee would be very attractive. How about £5-10 per ad?
[/quote]

But if you are only selling a set of strings, for example, that price would be excessive and offputting.

Maybe just charge a joining fee for the site itself? Then everyone pays a small amount rather than hitting the sellers disproportionately.

[Shockwave]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1354626493' post='1888278']
But if you are only selling a set of strings, for example, that price would be excessive and offputting.

Maybe just charge a joining fee for the site itself? Then everyone pays a small amount rather than hitting the sellers disproportionately.
[/quote]

Although we do get new members all the time, many new members will be put off by a joining fee and not join altogether. I doubt Basschat will raise enough funds that way.

I say a yearly flat fee will see the least amount of disruption. It is also a tested and proven method for a rival bass site. If it can be implemented, a percentage of the final sale price would be useful, but I have doubts that this could happen from a technical stand point.

[mr zed]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1354626493' post='1888278']
But if you are only selling a set of strings, for example, that price would be excessive and offputting.

Maybe just charge a joining fee for the site itself? Then everyone pays a small amount rather than hitting the sellers disproportionately.
[/quote]
A very good point. I hadn't really thought of the lower value stuff - too much time spent in the 'basses for sale' section

So either a yearly subscription, a price per ad based upon percentage, or free ads for items under a certain value say £100?

[SpaceChick]

I'm going to be brutally honest here.... I don't like the new classifieds AT ALL!! I much prefer the old market place.

As for charging to use the forum, I am a member of several forums (and actually host one myself) and I have never paid to be a member (or charged to that matter). If you charged to be a member of basschat, then I think you would lose a lot of people, myself included.

However, in this modern world of online selling I think it would be acceptable to pay a listing fee when selling an item. However, if it was a one-off annual charge of £20 I certainly wouldn't use it. However, a listing fee of £1 or £2 I would.

[Rumple]

I don't know if it's possible but could it work that the fee charged to list and item for sale is a percentage of the price the item is offered at? so a set of strings being sold doesn't cost the seller the same as someone selling a top end bass?

[Bassman Sam]

I prefer the old market place and fee per ad seems fair. I don't buy or sell anything any more but I am happy to chuck a few bob into the pot now and again just to keep the site afloat. A yearly subscription would be the fairest way to go. £20 per annum is about right IMO.

[Matt P]

i'd quite like it to go back to the old style but with the 5 points in the original post, my only niggle would be the price, a single £20 charge might stop some of the cheaper items from being listed, and i'd imagine that the smaller items in the "other" catagory would dissapear altogether (leads/straps/strings/cases etc) what about the recycling section? could this be kept as free with a donation suggested rather than compulsory? some kind of sliding scale or a smaller fee (2 quid?) per listing would be good for me (i don't think i've got anything i'm thinking of selling that would be worth the £20)

Matt

[cheddatom]

I see that people like discussion in for sale threads, but also don't want them jumping to the top in less than 36 hours. I don't see how the two are compatible?

The bump button is a good idea, but as soon as anyone posts in the thread it will be bumped anyway

[Shockwave]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1354627724' post='1888309']
I see that people like discussion in for sale threads, but also don't want them jumping to the top in less than 36 hours. I don't see how the two are compatible?

The bump button is a good idea, but as soon as anyone posts in the thread it will be bumped anyway
[/quote]

I wonder if it is technically possible for a member to post in a thread, but not bump it at the same time...

[paul j h]

Hi,

i prefered the old system, not only could you see what was for sale, but a discussion on the merits/demerits? of the product often followed. The charging for ads i'm not sure about, i recently sold some Precision knobs for a fiver, would i want to be charged £20 to do so! i would prefer donations or percentage of sale. The 36 hour bumping button i would be in favour of, if its an interesting item it gets bumped anyway by others comments etc. Anyway i think you guys do a great job and like others "basschat" has become a part of my everyday life so we are passionate about it. Cheers Paul.

[uncle psychosis]

Being honest, I don't like the new classifieds at all, and most people have already listed the reasons why so I won't repeat them. I also don't really see whats wrong with the current system.

If the site needs to make some money to continue then lets try and raise some funds---but I'm not convinced that charging a yearly or one-off listing fee will help the site long term. Lots of people only join the site initially so they can sell something, and then they stick around. If they have to pay a fee up front, they'll probably not bother.

Basschat has a great "community" feel to it. The classifieds are (fairly) self-moderating as it is. I think if the site needs more money coming in then a large number of the regulars will help out, without needing to be forced to, so long as they are asked in the correct manner.

[Norris]

Firstly I'll say I'm not a huge fan of the classifieds. I think the change (albeit in it's present un-finished form) has lost a lot of the community feel. Even the 'pointless' banter in the thread let the seller know that people were at least looking at the advert. Anyway, needless to say I'm encouraged by this thread.

Anyway, my real reason for posting is regarding the raising of funds - and the blatant copying of an idea from another website. On [url="http://b3ta.com"]b3ta.com[/url] (and I wouldn't try to access it from your work PC or if you're easily offended!) membership is free. However the users can buy special icons that appear next to their names - that show that they have donated to the site. The icons are changed regularly, encouraging users to be displaying the latest one following another donation. As there are no actual items changing hands (such as the BC lanyards), just kudos, so the entire donation goes to the upkeep of the site.

Just an idea like...

[simwells]

I'm not a fan of the new section and to be honest if it wasn't for people complaining about it would have never been aware it existed and I still forget to look on it as it's not listed with everything else but that's just habit really.

As far as charges I'd be happy to pay a yearly member to get free access to listing items as well as maybe a private subforum? I've known other forums to do this with offers and things like group buys being offered to subscribers only. Then a per listing charge or percentage for general members, percentage would have to be an honesty box basically as far as I can see it though.

[Happy Jack]

I greatly prefer the old marketplace and have actually never left it.

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1354623363' post='1888176']
How would you feel if we:

1 - carried on using the regular marketplace forums: [color=#ff0000][b]YES[/b][/color]
2 - charged a yearly subscription fee to be able to post adverts there (~£20) to help pay for developments: [b][color=#ff0000]YES[/color][/b]
3 - installed a new 'bump' button which only works once every 36hrs on your thread: [color=#ff0000]Unnecessary IMHO, but not a problem[/color].
4 - develop the marketplace to allow thumbnails next to threads for everyone: [color=#ff0000]Unnecessary IMHO, but not a problem[/color]
5 - develop a better form for selling items with fields for things like location, price, etc to make adverts clearer: [color=#ff0000]Unnecessary IMHO, but not a problem[/color]

[/quote]

On point #2 I understand the comments about things like string sales etc. but I think the sub should be charged for ACCESS to the marketplace, like getting your hand stamped on the door. What you do once you've got your stamp, how many times you go in & out and what you do while you're there are all entirely up to you. That way, the only part of Basschat which involves CASH will be the only part of Basschat for which you have to pay CASH.

On point #3 the existing rule is perfectly adequate. Anyone who bumps too often can either have their thread deleted (more work for the Mods ... but it will only happen once ) or have other Basschatters point and laugh at them. As to people bumping their friends' sales, I cannot for the life of me see this as a problem.

On point #4, if you must, I suppose. I wasn't aware that this was causing trouble myself.

On point #5, if you must, I suppose. Frankly, I'd rather you didn't. I like the sheer individuality of the ads on Basschat and - as I posted ages ago on this subject - the way an ad is worded, the information included (or more importantly left out), all tell you far more about a vendor than someone completing a multiple-choice questionnaire. What's the driver for this change? Who benefits? If someone says "Collection Only" but fails to mention where they live, that gives me a clue as to who I'm dealing with.

[Wooks79]

Only problem with a sub to even view or post first would limit people.

An example I would use is my '79 precision I have just bought, the seller, top bloke but as far as i know has only joined to sell that one bass, he admits himself that he hates computers, and the ad was put together for him by his missus, but had he needed to pay £20 up front, might well have not even bothered at all!

I would then not have this bass that I love cos of that! Bad times.

[Wooks79]

Here's an idea, how about a £20 annual subs only 'champagne room' for people who want to list and not have the silly questions and offers etc.

Could mainly be used for higher end gear, but could be used for anything where people wanted to only be advertising to more known and respected buyer/sellers?

That would mean a part subs sales forum only, leaving the other stuff free to view, and maybe a small percentage from those sales as a fee, like 2% or something?

It would all add up!

[ped]

Thanks for the feedback so far, some great points.

Points 3,4 and 5 are just ideas really, not especially critical.

I think charging a percentage is a good idea, but it's actually quite hard to implement without some sort of modification, ala the new classifieds section. This is also what Talkbass have a simple one off fee. However we might later be able to offer extras to paid members like they do (but you already get an avatar for free!)

This is what a flat fee is best at least to begin with. The average passer by would have to weigh up the cost against using something like eBay, and I think we can happily compete on those grounds. Smaller items could be sold in a sub-forum for items totaling less than a certain amount, where listings are free. One day when we can afford it we may be able to introduce a % fee (capped to not penalise people selling expensive things).

I also feel ANYONE should be able to view the marketplace, after all, it means there's thousands of potential new customers for you to flog too. This is good for footfall and for you as a seller.

[bobpalt]

Not really sure why there are any objections at all to paying something to sell on BC? Maybe for items less than £100 there might be a case, but £20 to register as a trading member is far less than it would cost to sell just one mediocre bass on Ebay, let alone several a year.

[Rumple]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1354629615' post='1888360']

I also feel ANYONE should be able to view the marketplace, after all, it means there's thousands of potential new customers for you to flog too. This is good for footfall and for you as a seller.
[/quote]

Fair point, I only found the forerunner to Basschat when doing a Google search for a cab I wanted to buy and one showed up in the forum 'For Sale' section, I joined and bought the cab and been here ever since

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='bobpalt' timestamp='1354629970' post='1888364']
Not really sure why there are any objections at all to paying something to sell on BC? Maybe for items less than £100 there might be a case, but £20 to register as a trading member is far less than it would cost to sell just one mediocre bass on Ebay, let alone several a year.
[/quote]

People know what they're paying for with eBay. To random internet passers-by, basschat is a totally unknown quantity. Why risk paying basschat to sell your bass when you can pay eBay and know exactly what you're getting into?

Yes, basschat regulars might have no problem paying to use the classifieds (I'd be happy to)---but you have to ask whether or not the long term health of the site might diminish (I reckon a fairly large number of users only join initially because of the marketplace and then hang around once they get to know the place).

[molan]

I would definitely be happy to pay an annual sub of £20 and have been doing this on Talkbass for several years.

If people are really concerned about the cost of this vs a bass or cab then surely they could just pass some of the cost on by increasing the asking price by a tenner?

Obviously this would be slightly inflationary but it's not really like BC is that ultra price sensitive in the first place.

Also, prices here are often so good that the extra £10 - £20 is not exactly going to make much difference? I'd bet that if you took a 'typical' for sale bass like a US Fender J or P then you'd see a fluctuation in asking prices of more than this over any 3-6 month period.

I can see how this would be a problem for someone who only wants to sell a set of used strings but would think there can't be that many people whose only sale in a 12 month period would be one set of strings?

Obviously it's really difficult to be specific about such values but setting a fixed percentage of sales value (as per EBay) would require some sort of, much more complicated/expensive, software I'd think.

I must admit that I much preferred the chatty environment of the original for sale section - not least, as others have said, because you can often get a feel for a seller very quickly by the way he/she lists items and then responds to questions.

The fixed fee may also put off some of the less 'serious' sellers that have appeared in recent months as well and, to my mind, that can only be a good thing

I don't have an issue with bumping so long as it doesn't happen loads of times in a single day.

Again, Talkbass seems to have a decent handle on this.

[wateroftyne]

I've bleated on too much elsewhere, but I'll put my thoughts here just to keep it all under one roof. :-)

I don't like the new system. They're less visible to experienced users, never mind the newbies who might not know they're there. More importantly, they've been taken out of the flow of the community. They don't drive discussion any more, and given that BC is a discussion forum... this is a shame.

As for the 'problems'...

No thumbnails, excessive bumping, not stating prices, lack of detail in ads... are these [i]really[/i] problems?

The community is pretty good at self-policing, and it's usually sorted pretty quick. I've never noticed it to be a big issue. Yep, the mods have to get involved sometimes, but that's why we - and all other forums - have mods.

I honestly think some members are confused as to the purpose of BC. Unless I'm wrong, it's primarily a discussion forum, not a marketplace to facilitate the buying and selling of bass gear. We should be paying as much for the former as the latter.

I don't buy and sell that much on here, but I'd still pay a few quid a year to help keep the lights on. I'm sure plenty other users would, too. Those that don't want to or can't afford it... don't have to. Maybe do as they do on TalkBass, and restrict avatars & other bits and bobs of functionality (off-topic?) to those that donate?

I'm grateful to Ped & co. for trying to improve things and keep it viable, but I don't think this is the way to do it.

[Toasted]

Just did some basic maths. Across the three main for sale forums (basses, amps, fx) there's 32,412 threads. Assume each thread lists only a single item - which is especially unlikely in both Amps and FX). Consider that BG and Amps have been running since 17/7/07 and that FX has been running since 20/01/09, if each ad had been charged at £2 net income would be £64,824 as the forum stands today or when you pro-rata it £12,720/PA.

To shamelessly steal from my favourite organ: Trebles all round.

[Guest]

I think a per item or per ad fee would be the fairest way.
Fair to people joining and to sell and current members. I think £20 would put the majority of selling on here to be honest despite ebay being more expensive, this is a community after all. With the amount of ads usually placed on here ....under a fiver would still generate quite a bit of income for the site.
As for the new classifieds section, I hate it to be honest. It just ain't got no Soul.
An automatic 36 hour bumping control would be good if at all possible to save the Mods some work.
My ten bobsworth.

[bobbass4k]

A fixed £20 fee would definitely put me off selling, ATM I only sell a couple pedals a year on here, and £20 up front to list less £150 worth of stuff that isn't guaranteed to sell, and in fact probably won't sell just isn't worth it. Probably half the stuff I've ever listed here I've either given up on selling or had to take to eBay, so an up front fee is just stupid, what if I pay my £20 in January, list a few things, but by December I've not sold anything, would you refund my fee? The marketplace just isn't reliable enough to justify an up front fee.

A capped percentage of all sales might work, but you'd probably just get people factoring it into their prices like they do with paypal fees, raising prices so potentially they don't sell. As much as it pains me to say it, I think what TB do is pretty sensible, anyone can view and reply to classifieds, but only supporting members can post them. A TB supporting membership is $20, which is cheaper than the £20 you're proposing and gives other benefits besides just classifieds.

The problem though is that you'd probably have to remove features from a regular membership to give to the supporting members, like avatars, signatures and the like. Personally I would pay £10 or £15 a year for a supporting membership, but you'd probably have a backlash from people who don't want to pay when their avatars disappear or they can't post ads any more. I know we have significantly less members than TB so it might not end up being worth it, but I think it's far preferable to just paying for classifieds access.