Are Stingrays the new Warwicks, price wise?

[Prunesquallor]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1355142765' post='1894497']
He was using different basses for recording even while he was using the Stingray as his main bass , first a Spector in the late 1980s , and then most of Blood Sugar Sex Magic is played on a Wal . Not long after that he abandoned Stingrays altogether .
[/quote]

Exactly my point. Although he didn't like using Stingrays in the studio, he used them live because he liked the tone. But when he found the Modulus he didn't need the Stingrays for live use either.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Prunesquallor' timestamp='1355160853' post='1894838']


Exactly my point. Although he didn't like using Stingrays in the studio, he used them live because he liked the tone. But when he found the Modulus he didn't need the Stingrays for live use either.
[/quote]
Then released his own stingray copy so rubbish and over priced he had to return to modulus once more

[Dingus]

[quote name='Prunesquallor' timestamp='1355160853' post='1894838']
Exactly my point. Although he didn't like using Stingrays in the studio, he used them live because he liked the tone. But when he found the Modulus he didn't need the Stingrays for live use either.
[/quote]

To me they sound very similar , so you can see why he made the switch :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyrKlS8qGD4

To my ears the Modulus is a little deeper and has that graphite clarity , but they definitely sound more similar than they do different .

[Prunesquallor]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1355161141' post='1894844']To me they sound very similar , so you can see why he made the switch :

To my ears the Modulus is a little deeper and has that graphite clarity , but they definitely sound more similar than they do different.[/quote]

Do you know if Moduluses (Moduli?) indeed have a more even note output than Stingrays, answering Flea's pet peeve?

[stingrayPete1977]

What sort of stingray has he got there though, kind of looks like a copy in them colours but I guess its a 80's refin? I like both really.

[stingrayPete1977]

I wonder why flea never uses a Ray 5 live as he has said he uses them in the studio even now I'm sure I read somewhere, certainly other fives at least?

[Dingus]

[quote name='Prunesquallor' timestamp='1355163694' post='1894888']
Do you know if Moduluses (Moduli?) indeed have a more even note output than Stingrays, answering Flea's pet peeve?
[/quote]

Graphite -necked basses as a rule have a very noticeably more even note response than wooden necked basses . There is a technical reason for this , known as the "Q" factor , which refers the the frequencies at which the neck vibrates sympathetically with the note being played . Essentially , when the note and the neck vibrate at the same frequency the two matching vibrations cancel each other out causing the note to be noticeably quieter , or a "dead spot " as it is often referred to . Old Fenders are particulaly prone to this On a graphite neck the greater rigidity means that the neck vibrates at a far higher frequency , out of the range of the notes on the bass guitar and so all the notes ring out far more evenly than on a wooden necked bass . Indeed , the reason Leo Fender changed the shape of the headstock and came up with the 3+1 tuning peg arrangement when he designed the Stingray was to try and change the resonant frequency of the neck and get rid of what he percieved to be a dead spot at the fifth fret on the E string .

Edited December 11, 2012 by Dingus

[Prime_BASS]

I just find on a lot of basses with maple necks the E-string gets less and less dynamic and pronounced after the 5 fret and the 7 on the A and he 12 on the D.

The Sandberg I have now is a lot better than both birdseye maple necked(also one piece) EBMMs, the Big Al I had was a lot better than all, and the SUB I had before that had a much fewer dead spots than the higher priced models I've had. very hit or miss.

The Sandberg still has much better pronunciation across the frequencies though.

BUT ANYWAY!
The price!
Even some Modulus basses haven't sold or have sold for much less than people seem to believe, but that is only some. They are in demand and fairly rare to come by secondhand, so you'd expect the right price tag regardless of bass or sale. That's where the right buyer situation comes into it.

I'd buy one easy for the right price, but some one else? the price may not matter.

[Musicman20]

If the right colour Modulus came up with the LP pup I'd buy it!

[stingrayPete1977]

They always tend to be in europe mainland somewhere rather than here, one day maybe.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1355175776' post='1895141']
If the right colour Modulus came up with the LP pup I'd buy it!
[/quote]

The existing stock Duncan/Basslines pickup is an exact reverse -engineered copy of the Lane Poor . You won't hear any difference ; Seymour Duncan knows a thing or two about making pickups .

[Prunesquallor]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1355165090' post='1894918']
Graphite -necked basses as a rule have a very noticeably more even note response than wooden necked basses . There is a technical reason for this , known as the "Q" factor , which refers the the frequencies at which the neck vibrates sympathetically with the note being played . Essentially , when the note and the neck vibrate at the same frequency the two matching vibrations cancel each other out causing the note to be noticeably quieter , or a "dead spot " as it is often referred to . Old Fenders are particulaly prone to this On a graphite neck the greater rigidity means that the neck vibrates at a far higher frequency , out of the range of the notes on the bass guitar and so all the notes ring out far more evenly than on a wooden necked bass . Indeed , the reason Leo Fender changed the shape of the headstock and came up with the 3+1 tuning peg arrangement when he designed the Stingray was to try and change the resonant frequency of the neck and get rid of what he percieved to be a dead spot at the fifth fret on the E string .
[/quote]

Interesting. Thanks!

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Prunesquallor' timestamp='1355218907' post='1895398']
Interesting. Thanks!
[/quote] best user name I've seen for ages. Thank you

[Prunesquallor]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1355219945' post='1895418']
best user name I've seen for ages. Thank you
[/quote]

Thank YOU!

[Dingus]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1355175048' post='1895125']
I just find on a lot of basses with maple necks the E-string gets less and less dynamic and pronounced after the 5 fret and the 7 on the A and he 12 on the D.

The Sandberg I have now is a lot better than both birdseye maple necked(also one piece) EBMMs, the Big Al I had was a lot better than all, and the SUB I had before that had a much fewer dead spots than the higher priced models I've had. very hit or miss.

The Sandberg still has much better pronunciation across the frequencies though.

BUT ANYWAY!
The price!
Even some Modulus basses haven't sold or have sold for much less than people seem to believe, but that is only some. They are in demand and fairly rare to come by secondhand, so you'd expect the right price tag regardless of bass or sale. That's where the right buyer situation comes into it.

I'd buy one easy for the right price, but some one else? the price may not matter.
[/quote]

Regarding the secondhand prices of Modulus Flea basses , I think one of these would actually be quite a good investment in the sense that there will always be a market for them because of the Flea association , but the price is also undermined by the same factors that bring down secondhand Stingray prices , namely that there are , for an upmarket "designer " bass , quite a few in circulation because of Fleas enduring popularity . A great many of the Modulus Flea basses that you see for sale will have come to the UK via Ebay ect . and so the buyer has only paid the used price of the bass and is likely to be prepared to reflect that price in their asking price when they eventually sell it . Also similaly to the Stingray , the Modulus Flea bass has been around a long time now - it must be nearly 15 years - and so some of them were purchased at prices way below current retail prices , especially when the pound was buying two U.S dollars a few years ago . All of this makes current owners more disposed to sell them at reasonable prices . I would think these basses would be fairly easy to sell , but if you wanted to get top money for one it would have to a recent one in the right colour and spec - they offer quite a few options - and then I would be confident of getting a respectable return on it .

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1355232143' post='1895646']
Regarding the secondhand prices of Modulus Flea basses , I think one of these would actually be quite a good investment in the sense that there will always be a market for them because of the Flea association , but the price is also undermined by the same factors that bring down secondhand Stingray prices , namely that there are , for an upmarket "designer " bass , quite a few in circulation because of Fleas enduring popularity . A great many of the Modulus Flea basses that you see for sale will have come to the UK via Ebay ect . and so the buyer has only paid the used price of the bass and is likely to be prepared to reflect that price in their asking price when they eventually sell it . Also similaly to the Stingray , the Modulus Flea bass has been around a long time now - it must be nearly 15 years - and so some of them were purchased at prices way below current retail prices , especially when the pound was buying two U.S dollars a few years ago . All of this makes current owners more disposed to sell them at reasonable prices . I would think these basses would be fairly easy to sell , but if you wanted to get top money for one it would have to a recent one in the right colour and spec - they offer quite a few options - and then I would be confident of getting a respectable return on it .
[/quote] dunno about reasonable return buy silver sparkle ANYTHING has to be good.

[Dingus]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1355246771' post='1895907']
dunno about reasonable return buy silver sparkle ANYTHING has to be good.
[/quote]

Have you thought about covering one of your existing basses in glitter , or wrapping it in tinfoil even ? It would look festive and might satisfy your craving for a silvery bass .

[vintage_ben]

Someone may have mentioned this before, but it's a long thread!

There seems to be a common thread with Warwick, MusicMan and from the six string world, PRS. All these brands initially produced for the upper end of the consumer (not boutique) market and have then introduced more affordable instruments.

By introducing budget/affordable ranges or the lowering the entry price point customers who previously not catered for entered the market for all these brands (both new and second hand). In addition the customer who was a marginal participant in the 'new' market at the higher price point might choose to switch to the market for cheaper range instead. Why stretch to pay £1200 when I can comfortably get something almost as good for £800? Now this might work well for the manufactures, they benefit from sales of both range of instruments. However, this isn't much good for the owners of 2nd hand higher end instruments. As some players who previously had no choice to buy a higher end used instrument switch to a cheaper alternative, demand of used hand higher end instruments falls. If supply remains unchanged, price falls.

There also appears to be an issue of devaluing the brand by introducing cheaper instruments. This makes things even worse as demand falls further and supply grows as players try and ditch their instruments on the 2nd hand market. Prices crash. PRS and Warwick have certainly suffered from this.

[stingrayPete1977]

I dont know, i remember when the fake rolex watch thing kicked off years ago and someone asked the boss at rolex what he thought, he said the sales have gone through the roof as people that can afford (or cant even) now want the real version, two years ago no one knew what a rolex was! Same happens here i bought my first ray in 2002 within a few years i wanted a pre eb. I bought a yamaha virago years ago and got so sick of people asking me if it was a harley davidson i ended up buying one!

Ebmm were one of the very last companies to introduce budget versions, squier,epiphone,warwick rock bass, cheap ibanez and yammys,charvel, charvette etc all predate the olp,sterling range and the sub basses in most cases.

Edited December 11, 2012 by stingrayPete1977

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355269006' post='1896305']
I dont know, i remember when the fake rolex watch thing kicked off years ago and someone asked the boss at rolex what he thought, he said the sales have gone through the roof as people that can afford (or cant even) now want the real version, two years ago no one knew what a rolex was! Same happens here i bought my first ray in 2002 within a few years i wanted a pre eb. I bought a yamaha virago years ago and got so sick of people asking me if it was a harley davidson i ended up buying one!

Ebmm were one of the very last companies to introduce budget versions, squier,epiphone,warwick rock bass, cheap ibanez and yammys,charvel, charvette etc all predate the olp,sterling range and the sub basses in most cases.
[/quote] rickenbacker havn't yet.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1355269562' post='1896313']
rickenbacker havn't yet.
[/quote]

Indeed not - they've taken a different route - trying to make it difficult for people to trade copies. What EBMM did was to say if we don't fill the space (for a cheaper version) someone else will - hence the Sub SBMM (which competes with the Vintage Stingray copy etc).

My take on this is that people who start off with the cheap version may well lust after the real thing in due course. I was inwardly chuckling earlier at a very lengthy Talkbass thread which was trying to argue a Squire xyz bass is better than the Fender version of the same bass - I thought - yes you may believe that but I'm betting a good number of people who buy the Squire will at some stage end up with a Fender.

My original take on this thread was it's just a facet of the current market - the price of basses can go up or down, as they say! A good example of fluctuation of new prices - I got my SR5 in 2003 with a hard case for £995 (yes really - brand new - in stock for two months from DOB) - six months later they were around £1250+ and didn't come with a hard case, only a gig bag - the reason - huge fluctuation in exchange rate. Later the rate changed and the prices altered yet again.

Slightly off topic - but have any of you guys with Stingrays recorded with one with the mutes wound on? I did a couple of weeks ago (2 band Classic) and am totally amazed at the sound - real thump (a la P bass) but with warmth and a smoothness I've never heard before. So much so I've started using them live as well and they have a great effect there as well.

[stingrayPete1977]

I love my mutes! Never recorded anything with them engaged but used them plenty of times, love cats by the cure for example.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1355269562' post='1896313']
rickenbacker havn't yet.
[/quote]

That's because everybody is else is knocking them out instead...

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1355308408' post='1896589']


That's because everybody is else is knocking them out instead...
[/quote]
I wouldn't buy one however cheap they made them

[EBS_freak]

True, true.