urgent help with amp, have i just wasted a bunch of money!!!??

[BassInMyFace]

i just shelled out for a nice roland cube 100. lovely amp that was pretty much the best fit for me as a small low powered studio/practise/rehearsal combo.

heres the kicker, with so many bells and whistles i assumed it wud hav an fx send and return but it doesnt!!
i use a looper very much and i need to use the preamp stage with all the fx and amp simulations to plug into the looper. no problem the line out does that fine, BUT i need the output of the looper to drive just the power amp/speaker NOT go thru the pre amp/eq stage again therefore colouring the sound all over again.

does this make sense??

the roland has di out (pre and post amp), line out, phones out, ext speaker out, footswitch out x2 but only the one initial input as far as i can see.
the looper has jack input, xlr input, aux input, and jack output.


does anyone have any bright ideas as to how i can get this up and running? iv racked my brains but im out of ideas. is it even possible to open up the unit and solder in a post eq input????? its a last resort but i wud do it, cud be risky tho.


please dont say iv wasted time and money only to have to find another suitable amp and sell the roland!!!!!!! nightmare!!!!

[neepheid]

I don't know how to solve your problem, but I wouldn't go poking about inside - if it doesn't work out you'll ruin any resale value of the amp, then you'll be even further out of pocket.

Hindsight is 20/20: Never assume anything, particularly about gear when it usually isn't too difficult to find all the tech specs and pictures on the interwebs. If you can't find the info - ask! Someone on here will likely know.

[The Burpster]

I think you can do it.... ( I have a 30X) by using the EFX out and line in.

IIRC the line in (I used mine mostly for MP3) doesnt go through the pre-amp.

Email Roland (or ring them) they are OK, dont tell 'em you want to rip it apart tho'.....

[BassInMyFace]

[quote name='The Burpster' post='197782' date='May 13 2008, 10:30 AM']I think you can do it.... ( I have a 30X) by using the EFX out and line in.

IIRC the line in (I used mine mostly for MP3) doesnt go through the pre-amp.

Email Roland (or ring them) they are OK, dont tell 'em you want to rip it apart tho'..... [/quote]
yeah im deffo gonna have to give them a call but i figured i might be missing something ingenious.
so the 30 has a line in does it?? is it 1/4 inch jack? cos i literally cannot find one on the 100.

[BassInMyFace]

[quote name='BassInMyFace' post='197789' date='May 13 2008, 10:35 AM']yeah im deffo gonna have to give them a call but i figured i might be missing something ingenious.
so the 30 has a line in does it?? is it 1/4 inch jack? cos i literally cannot find one on the 100.[/quote]
i have just checked, the 30 does indeed have an aux in but guess what, the 100 doesnt.

this is a giant ballache, anyone got any solutions?????????????????????

[Machines]

The only unhelpful solution I can offer is don't make assumptions .

[Mottlefeeder]

[quote name='BassInMyFace' post='197820' date='May 13 2008, 11:21 AM']i have just checked, the 30 does indeed have an aux in but guess what, the 100 doesnt.

this is a giant ballache, anyone got any solutions?????????????????????[/quote]
I'm not quite sure I understand what you want to do, but one possibility might be to use a small mixer instead of the 100 preamp, do your fx looping around that, and feed that into the 100 preanp/amp as the last element of the chain.

Basic mixer or pedal preamp about £30?

[BassInMyFace]

[quote name='Mottlefeeder' post='197845' date='May 13 2008, 11:51 AM']I'm not quite sure I understand what you want to do, but one possibility might be to use a small mixer instead of the 100 preamp, do your fx looping around that, and feed that into the 100 preanp/amp as the last element of the chain.

Basic mixer or pedal preamp about £30?[/quote]
the whole idea is that i want to use the features of my shiny new amp to build up some sweet layered loops, i could always just bass-looper-amp but then all saved loops would be coloured by watever sound i wanted to use to overdub. i need the initial bass signal to be idependent of the looper output, ie. preamp the bass input then feed it into the looper and then that to remain fixed as i did it, giving the freedom to change sound on the overdub with the preamp making nice sounding loops.

i just cant believe for the quids worth of component thats missing im gonna have to sell on the amp, lose money and waste time.

would anyone know where to start on adding in my own post eq(preamp) but pre-power amp input??? its obviously possible as the cube 30 has one. does it need various resistors/capacitors/transistors or would it be a simple matter of finding the right place to whack it in?? i know its a bit rash but im desperate and i really like the amp and dont wanna lose money on the resale.

[Kiwi]

Maybe talk to DHA (Dave Hall) and see if one of his pedals might help?

[neepheid]

[quote name='BassInMyFace' post='197873' date='May 13 2008, 12:15 PM']would anyone know where to start on adding in my own post eq(preamp) but pre-power amp input??? its obviously possible as the cube 30 has one. does it need various resistors/capacitors/transistors or would it be a simple matter of finding the right place to whack it in?? i know its a bit rash but im desperate and i really like the amp and dont wanna lose money on the resale.[/quote]

Once again, I'd seriously recommend against it. Why are you so loathe to take the hit of having made a mistake? These things happen. Besides, if you've just got it then you should be able to sell it for what you paid for it. Or you could see if you could return it? All you've lost is time. You've gained the wisdom to thoroughly check specs before buying - particularly if you have a specific function in mind.

[BassInMyFace]

[quote name='neepheid' post='197882' date='May 13 2008, 12:25 PM']Once again, I'd seriously recommend against it. Why are you so loathe to take the hit of having made a mistake? These things happen. Besides, if you've just got it then you should be able to sell it for what you paid for it. Or you could see if you could return it? All you've lost is time. You've gained the wisdom to thoroughly check specs before buying - particularly if you have a specific function in mind.[/quote]
yeah i know ur right but the stoopid thing is is that i did do loads of research, i make sure all my gear is exactly right before i buy it as im proper skint.
im just shocked that it slipped my mind to check something so basic.
its also that its so close to working fine, all it needs is one tiny little aux input socket and jobs a good un. its just dangling the carrot right in front of my face dammit!!!

boo.

[TPJ]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='197877' date='May 13 2008, 12:22 PM']Maybe talk to DHA (Dave Hall) and see if one of his pedals might help?[/quote]
+1. He makes a Bob the Blender which is a tube driven effects loop. This might work for you.

[Mottlefeeder]

If you have just bought it, the best option would be to take it back and get the Cube 30, or whatever, as others have said.

If that is not an option for you, looking at the amplifier block diagram, the headphone jack mutes the feed to the main amp, so an amp tech might be able to convert the headphone jack into an insert jack, giving you send, return and earth on a three pole jack.

That assumes that the headphone amp is a standard op-amp, with enough current drive to power the headphones, in which case the block diagram probably mimics the circuit, and the mute switch is contained within the jack socket. It also assumes that the electronics are modular and some are common to the whole family of amplifiers, so the headphone socket is not embedded on the main motherboard. If it isn't modular, all bets are off.

Incidentally, if you were planning to use it with an extension speaker, that may not provide you with any increase in volume. The amp is bridged, and when you plug in an extension speaker, it becomes un-bridged, so each speaker gets its own amp. In other words, if you start with 100 w into 8 ohms, and add another 8 ohm speaker, you get less power out of it, because each amplifier will then see 8 ohms whereas before, each amp saw 4 ohms (half of the single 8 ohms speaker).

[DHA]

[quote name='TPJ' post='198058' date='May 13 2008, 03:50 PM']+1. He makes a Bob the Blender which is a tube driven effects loop. This might work for you.[/quote]

Where would Bob plug into?

If there is a line in then that might work.

Dave

[BassInMyFace]

[quote name='DHA' post='198182' date='May 13 2008, 07:10 PM']Where would Bob plug into?

If there is a line in then that might work.

Dave[/quote]
if there was a line in i would not be having any troubles at all. the bob the blender is no use to me as the signal would still have to be input in to the amp at a pre-eq stage therefore colouring all the signal, (ie all overdubs on the loop will be affected and therefore sound the same.)

what i really need is post eq input like on the cube 30. is there any way this can be achieved? can the headphone out jack be converted as mentioned above?

[ahpook]

[quote name='BassInMyFace' post='198578' date='May 14 2008, 10:58 AM']what i really need is post eq input like on the cube 30. is there any way this can be achieved? can the headphone out jack be converted as mentioned above?[/quote]

as other have said...i'd imagine it is possible, but you'd need to take it to an engineer.

[DHA]

[quote name='BassInMyFace' post='198578' date='May 14 2008, 10:58 AM']if there was a line in i would not be having any troubles at all. the bob the blender is no use to me as the signal would still have to be input in to the amp at a pre-eq stage therefore colouring all the signal, (ie all overdubs on the loop will be affected and therefore sound the same.)

what i really need is post eq input like on the cube 30. is there any way this can be achieved? can the headphone out jack be converted as mentioned above?[/quote]

It's not simple to do this correctly.

I think if you do this the resale value of the amp will be a lot less than it is now.

Dave

Edited May 14, 2008 by DHA

[The Burpster]

I'll give you my Cube 30 and £100 for it....

[BassInMyFace]

would anyone know where i could get hold of the circuit diagram for the roland 100? iv googled but the closest i cud get was the old bass 60.

not saying im gonna go hacking in to the amp but it would be worth a look at at just in case.

[The Burpster]

I believe you wil struggle with that one. Unless there is a kindly Roland tech on here that will copy one for you.

Roland will I very much doubt release a circuit diagram for a current model as they will cry 'intellectual property rights' and just tell you to go to a Roland authorised tech.... and you know what they're going to say.....