lowballing .. definition and .. is it insulting ?

[mcnach]

[quote name='Stacker' timestamp='1355838403' post='1903377']
Funny guy. Let me clarify: what made you think that it was suddenly revelant to bring in the subjects of cancer and shootings into this thread? I'm sorry, but please enlighten me.
[/quote]

seriously, man... chill a bit

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1355846763' post='1903594']
seriously, man... chill a bit
[/quote]

Indeed, have a glass of mulled wine and a mince pie, for 'tis the season to be jolly!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='umph' timestamp='1355843441' post='1903529']
English people are crap at haggling, I put high prices on all my stuff with the intention of people lowballing me
[/quote]

Are you offended if they don't?

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1355847576' post='1903608']
Are you offended if they don't?
[/quote]

Oh, there is a point!

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1355837701' post='1903361']
One of the oddest aspects of modern society is that everyone seems to have gained the idea that calling something "their opinion" makes it sacrosant and of value.[/quote]

Not odd at all; many thousands of people have died to give you the right to form & hold that opinion; whether you want that right or not. Similarly there also hundreds of people right now being tortured, maimed, disappeared or just plain murdered for not having the same opinion as those who govern them.
It doesn't make yours or anyone else's opinion more right or wrong than any other, but it's how folk respond to different opinions that's the crucial thing; with a shrug or a bullet.

BUT - this seems a grossly disproportionate tangent to go off at from the OP. I mentioned my intention to sell some gear to someone a while ago. They came back at me with what many would call a low-ball offer recently; I just said No, stuck to my price, pointed out is was very reasonable because of A, B, C & D, they agreed & paid my price. I didn't think anything untoward about it, he tried & if it had been a bit higher he might have got it for less - he didn't.
While collecting it yesterday they spotted another bit of gear which had been gathering dust, made an offer for it which I accepted & apparently after being recovered it's going to a guy who has been discussed on this forum many, many times.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1355843172' post='1903519']
HAHA! normally, "Noah fence" is followed by some of the most offensive things that have ever been said to you, but because of the rules, you just have to smile

It's the same thing as on Jeremy Kyle when somebody says "I'm not a racist, yeah? but...*Insert small minded racist comment*".
[/quote]

That one always makes me laugh. If I'm feeling brave enough I normally point out that seeing as sober people don't need to start sentences with "i'm not drunk, honest, but..." people who aren't racists don't need to start sentences with things like "I'm not racist, but..." either.

The other variant you hear on it is "$insert bigoted comment here$ ... but I guess its not PC to say that anymore".

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1355849046' post='1903631']
it's going to a guy who has been discussed on this forum many, many times.
[/quote]

Em, why has he been discussed many times? Is he somebody to avoid?

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Stacker' timestamp='1355840267' post='1903444']
Ok, how about respecting my right to have the opinion that £500 on a 1973 4001 was a low-ball offer? I think that opinion should be respected, given that someone eventually bought the bass for close to the asking price.
[/quote]

Actually - if we're to be picky - as this thread is heading; it wasn't a low-ball................ It was a daisy-cutter.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1355849219' post='1903634']
That one always makes me laugh. If I'm feeling brave enough I normally point out that seeing as sober people don't need to start sentences with "i'm not drunk, honest, but..." people who aren't racists don't need to start sentences with things like "I'm not racist, but..." either.

The other variant you hear on it is "$insert bigoted comment here$ ... but I guess its not PC to say that anymore".
[/quote]

HAHA! indeed.

No point saying something if you think you will have to apologise for it directly before or after you have said it, you might as well not say it!

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1355849400' post='1903639']
Em, why has he been discussed many times? Is he somebody to avoid?
[/quote]

Quite the opposite, a well known & liked pro. If I get it confirmed I'll let you know.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1355849601' post='1903644']
Quite the opposite, a well known & liked pro. If I get it confirmed I'll let you know.
[/quote]

Ah good!

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1355849046' post='1903631']
Not odd at all; many thousands of people have died to give you the right to form & hold that opinion; whether you want that right or not. Similarly there also hundreds of people right now being tortured, maimed, disappeared or just plain murdered for not having the same opinion as those who govern them.
It doesn't make yours or anyone else's opinion more right or wrong than any other, but it's how folk respond to different opinions that's the crucial thing; with a shrug or a bullet.
[/quote]

I think you've misunderstood me. Of course everyone is [i]entitled[/i] to an opinion---and like you say, being able to freely hold an opinion is a fundamental human right. But my point was that people seem to have fundamentally equated "the right to have an opinion" with "all opinions are of equal value" or "all opinions are right". They think that saying "its my opinion" is some kind of valid argument as to why they should be taken seriously and think that having an opinion on something gives them a seat at the table---like homeopaths demanding a say in how the NHS is run. Some opinions---"the earth is flat", "drinking 16 bottles of cola can cure cancer", "ducks quacks don't echo", "there's no evidence in favour of evolution" are just [i]wrong[/i]. The person is completely free to [i]hold[/i] that opinion, but the rest of us don't necessarily need to give that opinion respect or pay any heed to it.

[cheddatom]

12 pages of nothing but bullshit and i've still not sold my opinion. If you want it just make an offer. FFS the worst that can happen is I say no

Edited December 18, 2012 by cheddatom

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1355850011' post='1903653']
I think you've misunderstood me. Of course everyone is [i]entitled[/i] to an opinion---and like you say, being able to freely hold an opinion is a fundamental human right. But my point was that people seem to have fundamentally equated "the right to have an opinion" with "all opinions are of equal value" or "all opinions are right". They think that saying "its my opinion" is some kind of valid argument as to why they should be taken seriously and think that having an opinion on something gives them a seat at the table---like homeopaths demanding a say in how the NHS is run. Some opinions---"the earth is flat", "drinking 16 bottles of cola can cure cancer", "ducks quacks don't echo", "there's no evidence in favour of evolution" are just [i]wrong[/i]. The person is completely free to [i]hold[/i] that opinion, but the rest of us don't necessarily need to give that opinion respect or pay any heed to it.
[/quote]

Aaah, I see. In that case substitute my previous post with.....
"I full respect your inalienable right to believe that homeopathy works ............... but you're still a knob".

Edited December 18, 2012 by Big_Stu

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1355850207' post='1903660']
Aaah, I see. In that case substitute my previous post with.....
"I full respect your inalienable right to believe that homeopathy works ............... but you're still a knob".
[/quote]

Why use a paragraph when a sentence works perfectly

[JohnFitzgerald]

Regarding £500 being an insultingly lowball offer on an old Rick 4003.

Maybe to some.

To me ? I dislike them sufficiently that I'm unlikely to think of any good reason to offer that much.

[JimBobTTD]

To stir things up a bit...

I can see how someone can feel insulted by a very low offer. It suggests that the seller doesn't know the value of the item and is a mug.

I have not had a very low offer on anything I have sold online, so I don't know whether I myself would feel this way. I had a stupidly low offer via phone once, but I said no and ended the conversation without feeling insulted.

[hamfist]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1355843753' post='1903540']
If I have to respect the opinion that a low ball offer is offensive, don't I also have to respect the opinion of the low-ball-offerer? So his offer is both to be respected, and offensive?
[/quote]

Such a good point that I thought it needed to be restated.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1355905325' post='1904130']
To stir things up a bit...

I can see how someone can feel insulted by a very low offer. It suggests that the seller doesn't know the value of the item and is a mug.
[/quote]

Well, either that or it suggests that the buyer is a muppet, or not very clued up on what they're buying---they may not realise that the item in question is a particularly rare finish/spec/year, for instance (many people will not be aware that a JV Squier is worth a lot more than a Squier affinity). Given the number of threads about flakey/weird/odd band members I'd be reluctant to attribute to malice something that may just be caused by sheer muppetry---lets face it, lots of muso types are just on a different planet to the rest of us

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote]
I can see how someone can feel insulted by a very low offer. It suggests that the seller doesn't know the value of the item and is a mug.
[/quote]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1355909304' post='1904180']
Well, either that or it suggests that the buyer is a muppet, or not very clued up on what they're buying---
[/quote]

It merely indicates that the buyer values the item less which could be for any number of possible reasons, perhaps they already have 5 of the same bass and just had an idle fancy for another of a different colour if they could get it on the cheap, who knows. I just dont understand why all the energy gets wasted in trying to guess motives and working out if you should be offended.

[MiltyG565]

C'mon guys, let it die! 13 pages, i think every point of view has been covered, obviously too many people disagree. Don't make me have to call somebody a Nazi again!

[MoonBassAlpha]

Why not? It's what Hitler would have done (probably )

[flyfisher]

This thread has already survived the Nazi thing so it's probably immortal . . . unless we can find its heart and drive a stake through it, or perhaps a sliver bullet would do the job. Either way, it's getting a bit scary now.

[seashell]

I've never bought anything off BC before, but in the New Year I might be looking for a decent amp. This whole thread is making me rather terrified of the prospect. :-0

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1355921520' post='1904471']
Why not? It's what Hitler would have done (probably )
[/quote]

Ah, but he would have considered it a compliment!


Also, not read the whole thread, but while some buyers make very low offers, some sellers try it on by knowingly asking ridiculously high prices (perhaps not on BC, but in the wider world).