lowballing .. definition and .. is it insulting ?

[Big_Stu]

In some cultures it's considered rude not to try to haggle; which I found out to my cost (not literally) when I did a job for a mate of mine. Some of the stuff that's said can sound a bit soap-opera-ish, which on here might be seen as a gross insult, eg. "you take the food from the mouths of my children".

[Mr. Foxen]

I hate when you say to people 'make your best offer', they go for a lowball, and when you decline, they go to haggling. 'Best offer', so you weren't being honest with me first time, why would I continue to deal with you? Time better spent finding someone who can shoot straight.

[JimBobTTD]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1354722151' post='1889589']

So he was right then? Agreed his is still a dick but you can see my point
[/quote]

Well, both yes and no. The local market was flooded with similar cars (mileage, condition, age etc) all priced and selling at a grand less than he wanted. Furthermore, I have no real idea that he sold it at his asking price.

I fully understand market value and all that - don't worry!

[stingrayPete1977]

So why did you ring him then if it was a grand more?

[JimBobTTD]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1354727221' post='1889672']
So why did you ring him then if it was a grand more?
[/quote]

He was down the road!

[SlapbassSteve]

I'd sooner have low offers then no offers, but I have been amused in the past by 'your item is only worth X new, so I'm doing you a favour by offering Y' offers...

but this is the winner, had a message from a 'Mr Bargain Hunter' on Gumtree once-

[quote][color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]Is this the same Amp GAK are selling for 95 new? With A guarantee? And no lose connection? 12 month warranty? Never used and with a box? [/size][/font][/color][url="http://www.gak.co.uk/en/epiphone-valve-junior-5w-head/2008"]http://www.gak.co.uk/en/epiphone-valve-junior-5w-head/2008[/url][/quote]

No intention of buying, just trying to save joe public from being ripped off... he was even kind enough to include a link to the amp on GAK's website in his message bless him, but at the time I thought the £70 I was asking for basically a new amp(the loose connection was a two minute fix with some molegrips that I didn't have time for at the time) was fair. Went for £120 a week later with a Marshall 2x10 cab thrown in, once I'd finished rolling on the floor laughing.

[hamfist]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1354722046' post='1889586']
Would you accept 35p now I've slept on it?
[/quote]

I can't believe it. A lowball offer in this very thread !

[chrismuzz]

I think taking offence is a bit much. Even if somebody offered me 10p for an amp I wouldn't get upset. Everyone's out to get a good deal at the end of the day! (I probably wouldn't sell it for 10p just in case anyones wondering )

[MiltyG565]

I had a discussion with a local bass player about the value of his Squier vintage modified jazz bass with Seymour Duncan pickups. I estimated the rather generous sum of £180-£200, which i thought was pretty fair, considering you can get second hand fenders for slightly more. He seemed to be a bit peeved with that and insisted that it was worth at least £260. They are £260 new. I don't know what his experience would be of buying and selling second hand, but i doubt it is very little. as we all know, as soon as you buy something, you will not get that money back out of it, at least not for a long time, on the second hand market. I doubt his bass would ever have been worth more than £260, unless for some reason they became inexplicably sought after, but i doubt that happening, because they are still available to buy new!

Also i should add that the gent had made no modifications to it. He had taken great care of it, but that doesn't add value.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='SlapbassSteve' timestamp='1354727659' post='1889682']
but at the time I thought the £70 I was asking for basically a new amp(the loose connection was a two minute fix with some molegrips that I didn't have time for at the time) was fair.
[/quote]

See, this kind of thing grinds my gears far more than someone trying to haggle a price.

If its "only a two minute job to fix" or "its missing part $Y but you can get one on eBay for a few quid..." then major alarm bells start going in my head as a buyer. If a seller can't be bothered to spend the "few minutes" to fix whatever the supposed "minor" issue is, or won't spend a couple of pounds to replace a missing part on a bass worth hundreds then I start to have major doubts as to whether or not I want to deal with them.

[chrismuzz]

I sold a bass with an intermittent jack socket a couple of years ago. I couldn't be bothered to fix it so I told the guy if he wanted to do it himself I'd decrease the price (I forgot how much, it was somewhere around £30 I think). He bought it at the lower price, and came to collect it that week. I never got a message or a phonecall from him so I assume he was happy

Edited December 5, 2012 by chrismuzz

[MiltyG565]

Also, i can remember a couple of years ago, i had a peugeot 106, which i had bought of my cousin's boyfriend for the quite modest amount of £500. The car was in pretty good nick, with no paintwork or bodywork damage, tax and MOT, good tyres. It had a fair few miles on it, but was running well, and had been well kept. So to me, £500 was alright. Anyway, insurance for me would have run into £3000 at the time (because i was 17, and obviously being 17 means you are loaded). So i decided to sell it (and buy my first bass ). So i stuck it in the "Ad's For Free" for a profitable £950. Now, i know that seems like a bit of a piss take, being nearly double what i paid, but i genuinely did get a good deal on my part to start with, and i wasn't expecting that there would be many people who would come in and pay that, i had thought of a price i would like, then put in some extra for "Dealing room", so in a way, i was making sure i was going to get a price i was happy with. I got a phone call on the morning the paper was out, and a man came and dealt me down to £700, which was a bit lower than what i wanted, but he was intending to sell it on after me, so i accepted. I was never annoyed at his starting offer, which was £550. I still would have made a profit at that. But obviously, i want as much as possible, he wants the car for as little as possible. So i dealt him up to £700. we both got what we wanted, so we were both happy.

[Mr. Foxen]

The insulting bit isn't so much insulting as disappointment that makes it really annoying. You get excited at the prospect of a sale seeing the new message and it turns out to be some total chancer with no posts hoping you have no idea what you are selling.

[Wooks79]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1354724844' post='1889631']
I hate when you say to people 'make your best offer', they go for a lowball, and when you decline, they go to haggling. 'Best offer', so you weren't being honest with me first time, why would I continue to deal with you? Time better spent finding someone who can shoot straight.
[/quote]

I think that's cos people look to negotiate rather than just outright pay their top price, I mean if someone's offer was low but not far off the mark, tell them what you want, as they might want the item and rather not lose it for just and extra £x amount.

Being asked 'what's your best offer' puts me off to be honest, as I wouldn't really ask them 'what's the cheapest you will sell'.

If I want to offer on something, even if its a low offer, I tend to offer based on what I can afford, rather than tell someone their item is only worth £x.

I guess this is where everyone differs, and at the end of it all, nobody is forced to buy or sell, so hold out for someone your happy to do a deal with

[Doddy]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1354730719' post='1889753']
See, this kind of thing grinds my gears far more than someone trying to haggle a price.

If its "only a two minute job to fix" or "its missing part $Y but you can get one on eBay for a few quid..." then major alarm bells start going in my head as a buyer. If a seller can't be bothered to spend the "few minutes" to fix whatever the supposed "minor" issue is, or won't spend a couple of pounds to replace a missing part on a bass worth hundreds then I start to have major doubts as to whether or not I want to deal with them.
[/quote]

I once sold an inexpensive bass that needed a 'simple' fix (electronics),but I don't know what the hell
I'm doing with all that stuff so I sold it cheaper and stated that it needed looking at. The guy that bought
it was happy with that. It's not about not being bothered,it's more about me not knowing what I'm doing
in that regard.

As far as haggling on the price goes,I don't see a problem. If I think the price is good to start with,I may
buy it outright,otherwise I will always try to strike a deal-especially if the item has been for sale for a
while.I do it in music shops too.
The thing that annoys me is when someone states in an ad how much they paid for it and they want
to get that back. That is a sure way for me to offer a lower price.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1354733418' post='1889818']
I think that's cos people look to negotiate rather than just outright pay their top price, I mean if someone's offer was low but not far off the mark, tell them what you want, as they might want the item and rather not lose it for just and extra £x amount.

Being asked 'what's your best offer' puts me off to be honest, as I wouldn't really ask them 'what's the cheapest you will sell'.

If I want to offer on something, even if its a low offer, I tend to offer based on what I can afford, rather than tell someone their item is only worth £x.

I guess this is where everyone differs, and at the end of it all, nobody is forced to buy or sell, so hold out for someone your happy to do a deal with
[/quote]

I have asked a seller for their best price before, and if it anywhere near matches my offer (say £10 either way, or maybe more on more expensive items) i would pay it. If somebody asks for my best offer, i will offer them an amount but reserve a little bit (again, maybe £10) and if they say no, i would put the extra £10 onto it, everything after that would be a real question in my mind, as i like to have a fair idea of how much i want to pay for something. If i am selling, and somebody says it's too much for them, i'll simply say "Make me an offer", and again, if it's a figure that pleases me, i will take it. If it is a low ball, i will reject. I never do a deal that i'm not happy with unless it is 100% necessary. But then again, i have kind of renounced any form of buying and selling for the sake of making money. I have decided money is not something which i entirely desire beyond what i need to live and get the things that i want. I like things, not money. Money is corruption.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1354733767' post='1889825']
I once sold an inexpensive bass that needed a 'simple' fix (electronics),but I don't know what the hell
I'm doing with all that stuff so I sold it cheaper and stated that it needed looking at. The guy that bought
it was happy with that. It's not about not being bothered,it's more about me not knowing what I'm doing
in that regard.

As far as haggling on the price goes,I don't see a problem. If I think the price is good to start with,I may
buy it outright,otherwise I will always try to strike a deal-especially if the item has been for sale for a
while.I do it in music shops too.
The thing that annoys me is when someone states in an ad how much they paid for it and they want
to get that back. That is a sure way for me to offer a lower price.
[/quote]

What is wrong with that? I bought a bass for £80, did £50 worth of work and upgrades to it, and just wanted to get my £80 back out of it. I think getting your money back out of an item is the least you should hope for.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1354733418' post='1889818']
I think that's cos people look to negotiate rather than just outright pay their top price, I mean if someone's offer was low but not far off the mark, tell them what you want, as they might want the item and rather not lose it for just and extra £x amount.

Being asked 'what's your best offer' puts me off to be honest, as I wouldn't really ask them 'what's the cheapest you will sell'.

If I want to offer on something, even if its a low offer, I tend to offer based on what I can afford, rather than tell someone their item is only worth £x.

I guess this is where everyone differs, and at the end of it all, nobody is forced to buy or sell, so hold out for someone your happy to do a deal with
[/quote]

I'm not one of those people though. Hence saying 'give me your best offer'. If I wanted to negotiate, I'd start by stating my negotiating position (which is my advert), which would be rendered pointless by someone who didn't bother reading it, similar to not reading the words 'best offer'. If they want the sport of negotiating, they'll have to start by making their best offer for that use of my time.

[Wooks79]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1354735936' post='1889864']


I'm not one of those people though. Hence saying 'give me your best offer'. If I wanted to negotiate, I'd start by stating my negotiating position (which is my advert), which would be rendered pointless by someone who didn't bother reading it, similar to not reading the words 'best offer'. If they want the sport of negotiating, they'll have to start by making their best offer for that use of my time.
[/quote]

Maybe I see if differently, but isn't asking for a best offer (that might be lower than your asking price, but still acceptable) by its very nature, negotiating?

Everyone's welcome to trade how they want aren't they, it's just nice if nobody takes offence

[Green Alsatian]

I always politely decline, even if the offer is really low, and comment along the lines of "If you don't ask, you don't get". If I'm not open to offers for an item, then I'll state in the auction description that I won't reply to offers.

I do always respond to "What's the lowest you'll accept?" with "What's the most you'll spend?".

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1354736759' post='1889883']
Maybe I see if differently, but isn't asking for a best offer (that might be lower than your asking price, but still acceptable) by its very nature, negotiating?

Everyone's welcome to trade how they want aren't they, it's just nice if nobody takes offence
[/quote]

On my part, to an extent. On the part of the person ignoring what I've said, it isn't negotiating, it is spam or lies, depending on if they didn't read it, or read it and ignored it. Either way, no point in going further.

[Dad3353]

I'm simplicity itself.

Buying... Do I want it..? Can I afford it..? If both answers are 'Yes', that's that, I pay, and enjoy.
Selling... Do I want to part with it..? How much will I take for it..? Once offered my price; deal done.
End of.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1354724844' post='1889631']
'Best offer', so you weren't being honest with me first time, why would I continue to deal with you? Time better spent finding someone who can shoot straight.
[/quote]

Well noone in their right mind is going to open with their "best" offer are they ?, thats just not how any sort of trade negotiations work.

Edited December 5, 2012 by bassman7755

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1354737922' post='1889910']
Well noone in their right mind is going to open with their "best" offer are they ?, thats just not how any sort of trade negotiations work.
[/quote]

Yes, there are a lot of dishonest people about. I have no wish to deal with them.

[Gilby]

[quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1354737030' post='1889889']
I always politely decline, even if the offer is really low, and comment along the lines of "If you don't ask, you don't get". If I'm not open to offers for an item, then I'll state in the auction description that I won't reply to offers.

I do always respond to "What's the lowest you'll accept?" with "What's the most you'll spend?".
[/quote]

I share this attitude. It's honest and straight forward for private sales on forums such as these.
I do however haggle with sales people in regards to electrical goods and cars. Have to say my wife was a bit shocked the first time I did this in front of her but I got £50 off an electric oven even though it was marked down already.