Cab Suggestions

[Si600]

Because I'm probably a fool, and my money and I are easily parted, I've just got a GK MB Fusion. Now I need a cab to go with it...

So, has anyone any recommendations for a small footprint, lightweight, 500w @4 OHM single cab solution that will suit the amp?

If anyone says Barefaced I'll be very rude to you as I want one anyway but I can't afford one, at least, not new, and even second hand they're a bit frisky for me.

[chrismuzz]

GK 2x12 4 ohm?

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='Si600' timestamp='1354792365' post='1890359']

If anyone says Barefaced I'll be very rude to you as I want one anyway but I can't afford one, at least, not new, and even second hand they're a bit frisky for me.
[/quote]

So you buy a relatively expensive and good quality amp head, but you're after cheap speakers? Nice one.

[Si600]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1354792888' post='1890374']
So you buy a relatively expensive and good quality amp head, but you're after cheap speakers? Nice one.
[/quote]

I'm not sure that's quite fair This looks a good option, possibly a little too large physically, [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/193603-fs-eden-n410rs-4x10-cab-l190/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/193603-fs-eden-n410rs-4x10-cab-l190/[/url] Are Eden classified as "cheap speakers"?

[JTUK]

I know where there are Eden 210XLT and 212XLT cabs.
plus a WT800, as well
I will probably put them up on here for sale.. They aren't owned by me.. I've used them tho... BOLLOCKING sound..
and it is a long story, but PM me for details.

Otherwise expect to see a FS thread soon-ish.

[JTUK]

And no..Eden is not cheap kit..altho they do a cheaper range which I haven't really used.
But their XLT and alter models were pretty much standard Tour rigs.


Even now, I think you'll struggle to put much distance, AT ALL, between top range gear now and Eden back then.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1354792888' post='1890374']
So you buy a relatively expensive and good quality amp head, but you're after cheap speakers? Nice one.
[/quote]

I just posted in another thread that I love the sound of my Markbass F1 through a Peavey 4x10

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='Si600' timestamp='1354793711' post='1890386']
I'm not sure that's quite fair This looks a good option, possibly a little too large physically, [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/193603-fs-eden-n410rs-4x10-cab-l190/"]http://basschat.co.u...-4x10-cab-l190/[/url] Are Eden classified as "cheap speakers"?
[/quote]

Which Eden's do you mean? The ones on their website which are described as for "the budget concious musician", which retail for about £288 for a 4x10 .... in which case they ARE cheap cabs ......................or do you mean the D Series cabinets, retailing for nearly £900 for a 4x10 in which case they are not?

Really.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Si600' timestamp='1354793711' post='1890386']
I'm not sure that's quite fair This looks a good option, possibly a little too large physically, [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/193603-fs-eden-n410rs-4x10-cab-l190/"]http://basschat.co.u...-4x10-cab-l190/[/url] Are Eden classified as "cheap speakers"?
[/quote]

I used to have one of these, and they are very nice cabs. Portable, good sound, and very loud. And at that price a steal.

[Ultima2876]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1354792888' post='1890374']
So you buy a relatively expensive and good quality amp head, but you're after cheap speakers? Nice one.
[/quote]

There are good reasons for this. Once you've got a fantastic amp head, you likely won't need to upgrade for a long time (if ever). He may have blown the majority of his budget on his head, and wants to get a cheapish cab to get his rig up and running for now. Then he can upgrade, swap and generally reconfigure his cab setup later - but the amp will always be excellent.

If you do it the other way round and buy a cheapo amp with a fantastic cab (or even 50/50 and get a decent amp and decent cab)... the whole rig will sound like sh*t, then you're just going to need to buy a new amp soon to justify the money you wasted on that fantastic cab. And then what if your new amp doesn't get along with the cab in question? You have an expensive logistics problem on your hands.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Ultima2876

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='Ultima2876' timestamp='1354798316' post='1890475']
There are good reasons for this. Once you've got a fantastic amp head, you likely won't need to upgrade for a long time (if ever). He may have blown the majority of his budget on his head, and wants to get a cheapish cab to get his rig up and running for now. Then he can upgrade, swap and generally reconfigure his cab setup later - but the amp will always be excellent.

If you do it the other way round and buy a cheapo amp with a fantastic cab (or even 50/50 and get a decent amp and decent cab)... the whole rig will sound like sh*t, then you're just going to need to buy a new amp soon to justify the money you wasted on that fantastic cab. And then what if your new amp doesn't get along with the cab in question? You have an expensive logistics problem on your hands.
[/quote]

So, you are saying that the speakers (the things that the music actually comes out of) are the least important part of the chain?

[RandomBass]

Do you have a particular budget in mind? My first thought would be a GKE MBE212 - go for the 8 Ohm (£200 or so from Thomann while they last), I doubt you will notice the difference loudness-wise to a 4 Ohm, and it gives you the option to add another one at a later date for a lightweight vertical 4x12 stack for about £400. What's not to like? Yes I know you mentioned single cab solution, but you never know...

And if you don't like the MBE, Thomann have e very fair and easy returns policy.

[tauzero]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1354792888' post='1890374']
So you buy a relatively expensive and good quality amp head, but you're after cheap speakers? Nice one.
[/quote]

Indeed, it would make far more sense to use it as a doorstop until he's got enough money to buy an expensive cab.

I'd have thought the GK 212MBE would be one option, or perhaps a used Markbass Traveller 102P. Depends on size of budget.

[patrikmarky]

I've picked up my gk 550 fusion..been told
To go genz neo x 2 x12...expensive...but
What the hell! the heads awesome and it
Deserves the best...

[Si600]

I suppose that at the moment my budget is maybe a couple of hundred quid, whilst saving up to maybe replace whatever I end up with should I discover that it no longer fulfils my needs as a rig. Looking at the suggestions, a MBE212 seems pretty good.

[Mr. Foxen]

Forget the 4ohm part. No point, no cheap cab is gonna handle the extra watts.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1354799698' post='1890497']
So, you are saying that the speakers (the things that the music actually comes out of) are the least important part of the chain?
[/quote]
What's the problem with going to a modular set-up and upgrading one step at a time? It's arguable what the most important thing is, no matter how good speakers are crap in crap out, and if you DI then it really only matters for the stage anyway. Speakers like the Barefaced are just overpowered for this application anyway - a 500w@ ohms micro can't push them anywhere near their limits with a normal bass guitar signal unless your EQ is all to cock.
For the budget the MBE212 would be pretty unbeatable, from what people say it's worth bracing them a bit more which is dead easy and cheap to do. I don't think people realise how loud any reasonable 212 can be, and how much power you actually need to get the most out of a high-excursion high-power cab. For maximum performance from a Barefaced S12, for example, I'd look at a decent PA amp (with built-in HPF like most decent amps have) capable of bridging down to 4 ohms with true 2000 watts output. It would be louder than I'd ever need though.

[Mr. Foxen]

There is no problem with using cabs within their limits. Cheap amps are much more transparent than cheap cabs.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1354811431' post='1890730']Speakers like the Barefaced are just overpowered for this application anyway... ...how much power you actually need to get the most out of a high-excursion high-power cab. For maximum performance from a Barefaced S12, for example, I'd look at a decent PA amp (with built-in HPF like most decent amps have) capable of bridging down to 4 ohms with true 2000 watts output. It would be louder than I'd ever need though.
[/quote]

You don't need much power at all, you just need more power the louder you want to play. 'Maximum performance' is basically getting the SPL and tone you need for your gigs - if you don't need to be very loud then you don't need lots of power. Cabs with larger voice coils and higher excursion are louder than cabs with smaller volce coils and lower excursion of equal 1W sensitivity when both are driven with a mere 100W amp, because they maintain more of their 1W sensitivity through reduced voice coil heating and greater motor linearity. Use more power and the difference becomes even more obvious but that doesn't mean it isn't still there at lower SPL. I'd have expected better from you Lawrence than referring to a passive loudspeaker as 'overpowered'!

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1354813353' post='1890780']
You don't need much power at all, you just need more power the louder you want to play. 'Maximum performance' is basically getting the SPL and tone you need for your gigs - if you don't need to be very loud then you don't need lots of power. Cabs with larger voice coils and higher excursion are louder than cabs with smaller volce coils and lower excursion of equal 1W sensitivity when both are driven with a mere 100W amp, because they maintain more of their 1W sensitivity through reduced voice coil heating and greater motor linearity. Use more power and the difference becomes even more obvious but that doesn't mean it isn't still there at lower SPL. I'd have expected better from you Lawrence than referring to a passive loudspeaker as 'overpowered'!
[/quote]

Good shout. The nonesense that gets spouted on here is surprising.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1354813523' post='1890786']
Good shout. The nonesense that gets spouted on here is surprising.
[/quote]
OTOH there's not much point in directing sarcasm at someone just for having a budget, and it comes across as sneering. Pointing out workable alternatives within the OPs budget is a lot more helpful than that...

Edited December 6, 2012 by Beer of the Bass

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1354813353' post='1890780']
You don't need much power at all, you just need more power the louder you want to play. 'Maximum performance' is basically getting the SPL and tone you need for your gigs - if you don't need to be very loud then you don't need lots of power. Cabs with larger voice coils and higher excursion are louder than cabs with smaller volce coils and lower excursion of equal 1W sensitivity when both are driven with a mere 100W amp, because they maintain more of their 1W sensitivity through reduced voice coil heating and greater motor linearity. Use more power and the difference becomes even more obvious but that doesn't mean it isn't still there at lower SPL. I'd have expected better from you Lawrence than referring to a passive loudspeaker as 'overpowered'!
[/quote]

Haha, well that's fair but a semantic quibble We both know full well what I meant in the context of the OP looking for a cheap but acceptable cab for a 500w head and for 'maximum performance' by your definition it's not really necessary to spend a lot of money if you don't need to go loud.

With enough power your cabs are capable of going WELL beyond volumes that people use at most gigs and that comes at a price in terms of money, and also, even with neos, woofer weight (comparing say Kappalites with Deltalites or even lighter pressed-steel woofers). If you don't even need to drive a 212 at close to the 500 watts you have on tap for your gigs, sensitivity gains are a non-issue - loud enough is loud enough.
The flip-side to your point about [i]larger[/i] voice-coil diameter, is of course that the [i]longe[/i]r voicecoils of high-excursion drivers are less efficient - the Kappalite HOs are very loud but could be made even more so by sacrificing excursion and power handling, and of course the broadband sensitivity of the LF is much lower. The older, smaller VC diam B&C 12HPL64 is similar in sensitivity to the HO for that reason and sounds very nice indeed - just won't go as loud.

But you know all this. Of course I'm aware that you have your cabs to sell but I remember the early discussions about high excursion designs in the context of ERB down to low F# I also know what the power distribution v frequency looks like for low notes on some typical 4-strings, and my chances of noticeably exceeding excursion limits on even reasonable woofers with only 500 watts available!

[Ultima2876]

Back on topic, The GK 2x12 MBE is a good choice if you plan on being sensible and using a step-by-step approach. However, you could always get a bank loan (or sell a kidney) and do what The Dark Lord suggests

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Ultima2876' timestamp='1354816194' post='1890827']
Back on topic, The GK 2x12 MBE is a good choice if you plan on being sensible and using a step-by-step approach. However, you could always get a bank loan (or sell a kidney) and do what The Dark Lord suggests
[/quote]

It really depends what the gigs are. My dad and I built a pair of reflexed 112s for bass back in the 90s, using fairly decent (but still pressed-steel), carefully chosen PA woofers. This was at a time when it was all about whether 10s or 15s were best(!), which seemed rather silly to us even at the time.
We didn't build another of that config (though plenty of others) because that rig still gets loud and clear enough with a 300 watt head for any gig they've ever been asked to do, there's no tonal compromise either. Horses for courses, have to think about how loud you need.

I would say though, always get more speaker surface area if you want the option of going louder, which is why the 212 is a good setup IMO

Edited December 6, 2012 by LawrenceH

[JTUK]

Don't know how the amp stacks up, but an Eden 212 from their pro range...or old SWR would be the best bang for buck, IMO.
SWR's Goliath types and Eden are way too cheap...and the only trade-off is the weight but I'd be betting the SWR410 ll/lll or Eden 212/410 XLT type outclass anything else mentioned here...and even more so, when you can pick them up for pennies. IMO.

Can't say whether it would match your amp tho..