whats your busy..?

[JTUK]

Funny how the slap parts get the attention and replays...?

How much of anyones gig is slap..??
How much of anyones practice regime is dedicated to slap..?

[merlin]

I love to watch these vids you can learn so much from them and read the comments,some I can aggree with some not personnal thing only wish that one day I could turn in a vid that I would be proud off.Off now to practice some more,please keep these coming..thanks.

M.

[crez5150]

Depends on the band...... I'd say 70% of my gigs and practice is slap

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1354875443' post='1891421']
Funny how the slap parts get the attention and replays...?

How much of anyones gig is slap..??
How much of anyones practice regime is dedicated to slap..?
[/quote]

[bluesparky]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1354839503' post='1891236']
He's not playing on a commercial recording, he's doing a Youtube video. He can play what he likes, it won't matter.

I think some of his improvisation is ropey, and his bass sounds terrible, but it's not like someone's paid him for a session and got this self-indulgent mess back, it's just a guy in his back bedroom entertaining himself.

This is why I don't get why anybody ever uploads videos to Youtube of themselves playing along to records. It always sounds like this to me, if not worse.
[/quote]


^^^^^ This.

My thoughts exactly.

[JTUK]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1354875939' post='1891428']
Depends on the band...... I'd say 70% of my gigs and practice is slap
[/quote]

Really...????

I'd say waaay less than 1% of the parts I play require slap in most bands..and that I'll slide in a fill in a song..but that is just me making it interesting for myself...or....tbh.. showboating.

For practicing..it is whatever interests me at the time.. so maybe much more.

I was asked to do a funk gig..and the lady/singer said she didn't know if I was a 'funk' player.
I asked her what was her definition of funk...and who would she say was a funk player..???
Suffice to say..we were miles apart... but it did make me laugh.
Not sure if I have got the gig... or if I want it but I find this type of thing very typical..!!

[Dingus]

I am slightly reluctant to wade into this debate , but I have watched the video a couple of times and I have to say that I think people are being a little too harsh on this chap . I have seen quite a few of his bass covers on Youtube before now and there is no doubt he a very capable player . Maybe he over elaborates in ( quite a few ) places on this track , but he does present it as his own personal interpretation of the line and maybe he just felt like playing busy that day! I'm sure he is savvy enough to know that it's maybe not the best or most apt version of Bobby Watson's original groove , but I respect him for putting it out there to be criticised . Part of the beauty of doing a playalong is you can take some liberties that you wouldn't if you were playing with a band and preoccupied with holding it down for the sake of the song . I dont think that bass sounds so bad either - it just sounds like the level is slightly to high and causing a bit of distortion . . That's the thing about Fenders -they might sound ugly in isolation but in the track it's the ugliness that gets you heard . So I would say not this fellows best work , but certainly not so bad as to warrant a thread on Talkbass dengirating his playing . If posters on there are rubbishing this guy then lets see them put up a video of themselves playing and then I might respect what they say .

Edited December 7, 2012 by Dingus

[Dingus]

Here's a video of him playing a very busy line in live setting and to my ears he pulls it off in a convincing manner , even if it does sound a bit 1980s ( not neccesarily a bad thing ) :

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI0s2uFERqA[/media]

Sounds like a pro to me .

Edited December 7, 2012 by Dingus

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1354893832' post='1891736']
Here's a video of him playing a very busy line in live setting and to my ears he pulls it off in a convincing manner , even if it does sound a bit 1980s ( not neccesarily a bad thing ) :

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI0s2uFERqA[/media]

Sounds like a pro to me .
[/quote]

Sounds like a very average function band to me. I bet they can turn any song into a tiresome funky blues jam.

[Dingus]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1354894229' post='1891744']
Sounds like a very average function band to me. I bet they can turn any song into a tiresome funky blues jam.
[/quote]

An average function band anywhere in mainland Europe sounds much worse than that , trust me . That's why British function bands get work abroad . Anyway , the point isn't the band it's his playing , which in this example is busy but it's tight , in time and in tune , although doubtless someone will be along to dissect his shortcomings shortly . No one is trying to say he is the new Richard Bona , but he is no chump either .

Edited December 7, 2012 by Dingus

[thisnameistaken]

On a tune like that where the arrangement has been pre-ruined I don't suppose it matters if you over-play. The original was about as bare-bones as a hit record can be, so once your guitarist opens up with the wah wah pedal then what the hell, everybody else might as well go nuts.

But you're right, it's less obvious how much he's overplaying when everybody is overplaying.

[tinyd]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1354893832' post='1891736']
Here's a video of him playing a very busy line in live setting and to my ears he pulls it off in a convincing manner , even if it does sound a bit 1980s ( not neccesarily a bad thing ) :

Sounds like a pro to me .
[/quote]

He's a much better player than me but some of his note choices are a bit ropey IMHO. However, unlike me he's actually out there playing music so I say good luck to him!

[xilddx]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1354894836' post='1891752']
An average function band anywhere in mainland Europe sounds much worse than that , trust me . That's why British function bands get work abroad . Anyway , the point isn't the band it's his playing , which in this example is busy [b]but it's tight, in time and in tune, [/b], although doubtless someone will be along to dissect his shortcomings shortly . No one is trying to say he is the new Richard Bona , but he is no chump either .
[/quote]

A BASIC requirement of any musician.

The band are all playing in time, but for me they couldn't sound much more disjointed and independent. I'll be honest and say I thought it was awful, and I agree with TNiT.

He is playing four minutes of fills. It all sounds very clever, but all it does is makes me feel anxious and irritable. The only way that would get me dancing is towards the nearest exit.

Edited December 7, 2012 by silddx

[redstriper]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1354896306' post='1891778']
The only way that would get me dancing is towards the nearest exit.
[/quote]

[endorka]

I'm not concerned about the youtube videos, as has been pointed out people post these for various motivations. The slap one was excellent though IMHO, nice relaxed style.

Three comments from my own experiences;

1) Most musicians' concept of busy is too busy for a pop or rock recording. I've fallen foul of this myself in the past, and still do sometimes. It's in our nature; even with great experience, you can't always hear the overview of the music as well as you think, and what works in your musical mind doesn't always work well with everything else.

2) If you are going to have a busy part accepted onto a recording, you have to [b]really[/b] nail the time and feel. It must bring immediate joy to those who hear it.

3) Bass is for the most part an accompaniment instrument. That doesn't mean you can't create special parts; it means that coming up with special parts that fulfil this requirement is particularly challenging.

Jennifer

[Dingus]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1354896306' post='1891778']
A BASIC requirement of any musician.

The band are all playing in time, but for me they couldn't sound much more disjointed and independent. I'll be honest and say I thought it was awful, and I agree with TNiT.

He is playing four minutes of fills. It all sounds very clever, but all it does is makes me feel anxious and irritable. The only way that would get me dancing is towards the nearest exit.
[/quote]

I must confess that I wouldn't pay to see the band play , but they are Italian and tastes can vary greatly from one country and one culture to another . I only use this clip to demonstrate that the guy is not just a bedroom player but does in fact put his neck on the line playing live . He is very busy , but he is capable of doing busy . I can remember when how he plays on this example was how every aspiring trendy bass player in Britain with a mullet haircut , a fancy custom bass and a Trace Elliot amp wanted to play , and frequently did . Maybe the guy is like the bass guitar equivalent one of those WW2 Japanese soldiers abandoned on a Pacific atoll who hasn't heard that the war is over .

[xilddx]

[quote name='endorka' timestamp='1354897071' post='1891802']
I'm not concerned about the youtube videos, as has been pointed out people post these for various motivations. The slap one was excellent though IMHO, nice relaxed style.

Three comments from my own experiences;

1) Most musicians' concept of busy is too busy for a pop or rock recording. I've fallen foul of this myself in the past, and still do sometimes. It's in our nature; even with great experience, you can't always hear the overview of the music as well as you think, and what works in your musical mind doesn't always work well with everything else.

2) If you are going to have a busy part accepted onto a recording, you have to [b]really[/b] nail the time and feel. It must bring immediate joy to those who hear it.

3) Bass is for the most part an accompaniment instrument. That doesn't mean you can't create special parts; it means that coming up with special parts that fulfil this requirement is particularly challenging.

Jennifer
[/quote]

As is usual, I agree with everything you say.

And I would like to add that I find it saddening, but also very useful that a lot of bassists seem to aspire to fill space instead of create it

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='endorka' timestamp='1354897071' post='1891802']1) Most musicians' concept of busy is too busy for a pop or rock recording. I've fallen foul of this myself in the past, and still do sometimes. It's in our nature; even with great experience, you can't always hear the overview of the music as well as you think, and what works in your musical mind doesn't always work well with everything else.

2) If you are going to have a busy part accepted onto a recording, you have to [b]really[/b] nail the time and feel. It must bring immediate joy to those who hear it.

3) Bass is for the most part an accompaniment instrument. That doesn't mean you can't create special parts; it means that coming up with special parts that fulfil this requirement is particularly challenging.[/quote]

On point 1: I often wish I could get more feedback on what I was playing. Other players usually just tell me it's good, which either means it's good or they're not listening. I'm not intimidating enough to get good feedback based on fear so I can rule that one out.

Regarding point 2: Agreed, and you need everybody to really nail it, not just yourself. I remember one band I used to do back in the '90s, there was 9 or 10 of us, and we had this one tune that was really busy and the guitarist was pushing to drop it because it sounded pretty awful. I asked everybody to really concentrate on the timing for one more run through in rehearsal and suddenly it just popped out perfect, and it didn't sound unusually busy. It became a big favourite live for both the band and the crowd, but if a couple of people were less than 100% on a given night it could be pretty weak, usually if someone had been drinking (sometimes me. Haha, 'sometimes').

Point three: I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's difficult! And again part of the difficulty is down to other people and their ideas of what the bass should be doing. I find guitarists in particular tend to fill any space you leave them, which can be very destructive if the space is what you intended, not 'space for another guitar lick'.

[arthurhenry]

When I was a lot younger, I would sometimes play very busily over the top of tracks at home, in order to develop my knowledge of the fingerboard and phrasing. The difference is; back then it wasn't posible (thank goodness) to film oneself and share it with the entire world, in order to let them know how good you think you are.

By the way, is the title of this thread supposed to be: "What's your definition of busy?"?

Edited December 7, 2012 by arthurhenry

[Dingus]

If you are going to expand the debate on what constitutes busy beyond the original Youtube clip then things become more complicated . The recent stylistic trend for the bass guitar is towards simplicity and economy , but that is a stylistic trend just like playing busy was twenty five or thirty years ago . If there was a simple equation that playing with" taste " ( whos taste ? ) and economy equalled good bass guitar playing then most of the significant stylists in every genre on the instrument would have never developed their style . Jamerson , Babbitt .Jack Bruce , John Entwistle , Jaco , Stanley Clarke , Chris Squire , Geddy Lee , Larry Graham and a whole host of other I could go on and name all were /are busy players who had the ability and enough personality to evolve imaginitive styles of playing that were frequently busy but effective and enthralling as a result . It is not enough to sagely say that the bass guitar should play a supportive role . Of course that is one of it's functions and in those circumstances less is more is a good credo , but there are also situations where more is more , and more is what you want . Being sensible has it's limitations , especially in an artistic sense . There is after all , no such thing as a conventional genius , It takes people who are prepared to reject conventional thinking and deviate from established ideas of good taste for innovation to take place .

Edited December 7, 2012 by Dingus

[gafbass02]

If that was me, and I found this thread, I'd be mortified and really, really upset.

I showboat and over play too live sometimes too, audiences sometimes like it or even encourage it!....and I've just joined a funk band, so opportunities to over do it will be rife. I shall be mindful!

Just Hope I don't end up like that poor fella being roasted on here!

Just sayin' like.
I know, I know, 'He shouldn't have put it on YouTube if he didnt want critique' etc etc

But just sayin'.
;-)

Edited December 7, 2012 by gafbass02

[Dingus]

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1354905873' post='1891957']
If that was me, and I found this thread, I'd be mortified and really, really upset.

I showboat and over play too live sometimes too, audiences sometimes like it or even encourage it!....and I've just joined a funk band, so opportunities to over do it will be rife. I shall be mindful!

Just Hope I don't end up like that poor fella being roasted on here!

Just sayin' like.
I know, I know, 'He shouldn't have put it on YouTube if he didnt want critique' etc etc

But just sayin'.
;-)
[/quote]

My sentiments entirely . The chap is running through some ideas ( as we have all done from time to time ) , not presenting a manifesto for how the bass guitar should be played .

[LawrenceH]

If that bassline wasn't sitting high in the mix with an EQ that boosts the mids right over the vocal register, it wouldn't seem nearly so 'busy'. If you solo'd some lines from classic recordings and EQ'ed them like that you might be surprised...
OTOH that slap line is very tight and nicely realised/recorded but the core tone for me is pure extra mature cheddar...

[Pete Academy]

I don't like it. He doesn't make the song breathe.

[bubinga5]

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1354912809' post='1892057']
I don't like it. He doesn't make the song breathe.
[/quote]couldnt have said it better my self..

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1354907326' post='1891973']My sentiments entirely . The chap is running through some ideas ( as we have all done from time to time ) , not presenting a manifesto for how the bass guitar should be played .[/quote]

He published it. It's not like we rooted through his personal storage and found videos of him playing along to disco tunes - he actually wanted us to see him doing it.

It's not like anyone's completely slated the guy anyway, but for the record I don't rate him at all, or his band.