simes Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Why is it called theory. A theory suggests to me that how something happens or works is unknown but the available evidence suggests something or is a well informed educated guess. Music works to well known sets of rules and conventions (which I know can be broken in the right context i.e if it sounds right). I feel I am not studying a theory but rules guided by the laws of physics. I'm not losing any sleep over it but perhaps one of you in know could explain it to me as it's niggling the need to know splatnic ganglion cortox of my brain cheers Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Theory as opposed to practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Creationists like to use the use of the word Theory to claim that Evolution is [i]just[/i] a theory, not a fact. But they are wrong, they're just cherry picking the bits that help their cause. [size=5][b]the·o·ry[/b][/size] [[i]thee-uh-ree, theer-ee[/i]] [i][color=#333333]noun,[/color] plural the·o·ries. [/i] [color=#333333]1.[/color][color=#333333] a[/color] [color=#333333]coherent[/color] group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as [color=#333333]principles[/color] of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity. [color=#333333]Synonyms:[/color] principle, law, doctrine. [color=#333333]2.[/color] a [color=#333333]proposed[/color] [color=#333333]explanation[/color] whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to [color=#333333]well-established[/color] [color=#333333]propositions[/color] that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact. Synonyms: idea, notion [color=#333333]hypothesis,[/color] postulate. Antonyms: practice, verification, corroboration, substantiation. [b][color=#333333]3.[/color] Mathematics . a body of [color=#333333]principles,[/color] theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: [i]number [/i][i]theory[/i]. [/b] [b]4.[color=#333333] the[/color] branch of a science or art [color=#333333]that[/color] [color=#333333]deals[/color] with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its [color=#333333]practice:[/color] [i]music [/i][i]theory[/i]. [/b] [b]5.[color=#333333] a[/color] [color=#333333]particular[/color] conception or view of something to be [color=#333333]done[/color] [color=#333333]or[/color] [color=#333333]of[/color] the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles: [i]conflicting theories of how children best learn to [/i][color=#333333][i]read[/i].[/color] [/b] Edited December 7, 2012 by KingBollock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1354900534' post='1891877'] Creationists like to use the use of the word Theory to claim that Evolution is [i]just[/i] a theory, not a fact. But they are wrong, they're just cherry picking the bits that help their cause. ... [/quote] Well, according to the definitions you provide, and quite rightly so, Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is exactly a theory in your sense number 1: '[color=#333333]a[/color] [color=#333333]coherent[/color] group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as [color=#333333]principles[/color] of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity'. Other examples would be Newton's theory of gravity, quantum theory etc. etc. etc. Creationists really have nothing to do with it (and I suggest you pay them little attention) but best not to fall into their game and also be a cherry-picker. The key phrase in the definition is 'commonly regarded as correct'. Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is a theory and not a fact. BTW, in avoidance of any confusion, I am an atheist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='simes' timestamp='1354898388' post='1891826'] Why is it called theory. A theory suggests to me that how something happens or works is unknown but the available evidence suggests something or is a well informed educated guess. Music works to well known sets of rules and conventions (which I know can be broken in the right context i.e if it sounds right). I feel I am not studying a theory but rules guided by the laws of physics. [/quote] It's called 'theory' because it has been called that for more than 2 millennia at the least. It's an (analytical) look at. There's a Roman, and probably Old-Greek or older etymology here. I don't know of any relation of the term to your everyday 'theory' description as an educated guess, or its totally different scientific counterpart, where a "theory" is the highest form of evidenced, accepted explanation of observed phenomena - - what one in everyday language would call the "proven" stuff. Music Theory contains Music Psychology, and in part tries to explain why and how music works the way it works. BTW, I like how you word "rules guided by the laws of physics". IME too few grasp that aspect, and too many express views along the lines of: "the theory mafia is not gonna make the rules for me - I'll do what I effing want thankyou", completely disregarding both the hindsight core of theory and its view at physics as an explanation rather than as a strait-waistcoat (straitjacket for you sorry lot below the border). But I'm aware I'm here bordering on an existing and vast debate about what music theory is or should and shouldn't be. best, bert Edited December 7, 2012 by BassTractor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1354904764' post='1891940'] Well, according to the definitions you provide, and quite rightly so, Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is exactly a theory in your sense number 1: '[color=#333333]a[/color] [color=#333333]coherent[/color] group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as [color=#333333]principles[/color] of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity'. Other examples would be Newton's theory of gravity, quantum theory etc. etc. etc. Creationists really have nothing to do with it (and I suggest you pay them little attention) but best not to fall into their game and also be a cherry-picker. The key phrase in the definition is 'commonly regarded as correct'. Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is a theory and not a fact. BTW, in avoidance of any confusion, I am an atheist. [/quote] The point I was making was that Evolution is infact an observed and proven fact. On both the micro and macro level. So the meanings I highlighted are the ones that count. I brought up Creationists because it is their interpretation of the word Theory, being that there is only one meaning to it, the one they like, that sprung to mind because it is something I have read a lot about, so I used them as an example of the differences between the meanings. Newton's Theory of Gravity is actually wrong. It is considered "good enough" because it works on our level, however it doesn't work on very, very small or very, very large objects. Edited December 7, 2012 by KingBollock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1354904764' post='1891940'] Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is a theory and not a fact. [/quote] For clarity purposes ([b]if[/b] it helps for something): Yes, but that sentence in itself can be taken two ways - and will be because of people's different reference frames - one of them being that a fact is of higher status than ("just") a theory, whilst in the scientific world, a theory is based on facts and as such, facts are the lower components and theories are at the highest level. BTW, I see that several people beat me to it. My previous post is in no way an answer to anything else than the OP. best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 How did a inane musical question get turned into a religious conundrum at only 3 posts in? Only on Basschat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1354905240' post='1891949'] Newton's Theory of Gravity is actually wrong. It is considered "good enough" because it works on our level, however it doesn't work on very, very small or very, very large objects. [/quote] Primarily, it doesn't work with things that move very fast ie, velocities nearer the speed of light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='risingson' timestamp='1354908569' post='1891986'] How did a inane musical question get turned into a religious conundrum at only 3 posts in? Only on Basschat! [/quote] Sorry. It was the first example of the misunderstanding about the different meanings of the word Theory that came to mind. Probably because it's something I read a lot about. Edited December 7, 2012 by KingBollock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simes Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Thanks for input folks, some very interesting answers to mull over. I feel a bit of reading up on my part is needed.....but not tonight I tired after a busy day at work capped of with another great lesson, both theory and practice :-) Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Not sure if this is helpful but maybe it is only a theory because the 'rules' only apply to certain music in certain cultural settings so, arguably, they are always as wrong as they are right. 12 notes in a chromatic scale? Not if you play sitar. Harmony vs atonality etc. All theory is valid and helpful but never absolute. And it almost always comes after the music (are twelve tone composing and serial composition exceptions?). Great question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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