preamps, DI boxes, and home studios..

[project_c]

I'm by no means new to bass, or to home recording and production - but there's a lot of conflicting viewpoints on this subject, and I'd like to get a bit of clarity on how people actually record bass in their home studios.

Ever since I've started playing, I've always just gone straight into my Mac via an audio interface (currently it's a MOTU Microbook). No DI's, no amps, no external preamps, just a signal straight from bass to Mac. It sounds fine 99% of the time, both with passive and active basses. However, as far as I can see, there are a number of things that people like to add to their signal chain when recording:

- DI's: Using your amp's DI, or a dedicated (and expensive) DI box. Is there any point to doing this at all? As far as I can tell, an amp's DI signal will mostly just colour your tone by altering EQ - in my experience, with a good amp the signal sounds almost identical - bar a bit of EQ - to when the amp DI is not being used. I've had no real experience with things like the REDDI and other DI boxes, but - whilst I appreciate the usefulness of these things in a live setting - I'm yet to be convinced that they do anything apart from very mild EQ and compression in a studio setting, and I'm wondering if there is a case of 'emperor's new clothes' going on with a lot of this stuff.

- Preamp pedals / preamp boxes: Something like the Tri-Logic Bass Pre in pedal form (I'm having GAS for this thing right now, although I'm not entirely sure why.. I'm not even sure if it makes sense to use it with a bass that already has a built in preamp), or a 'proper' preamp box, like the Demeter HBP-1, priced around £950. That is potentially an awful lot of money for a piece of equipment that is not an essential part of your recording setup. It is also something that is impossible to try before buying - as far as I know, no shops have this kind of stuff on display. Given that it's so easy these days to capture a high quality clean signal using a decent audio interface, do these boxes still have a place in the home studio? Do they actually have a significant impact on your signal? Or do they just 'sweeten' things a bit, but essentially do not much other than 'tart up' your signal in a very subtle way?

- Plugins within a DAW: I have both Ampeg SVX, and MarkStudio - but these, (and other similar plugins) don't really improve the signal as such, they merely change it. I like the way both sound, and use them a lot, but for making music that actually means something to me, they both seem kind of artificial against the pure signal straight from the bass.

So I'd like to know what your opinion is on these things. Is there anything fundamentally wrong with using a raw dry signal? Isn't that what most professional studios do? Do you have a piece of kit in your recording signal chain that you could not do without? Does it really even make sense to use a preamp on a bass with a built in preamp? Will GAS for little boxes that do very little ever stop hounding us? No disrespect for anyone using any of these things, I have GAS for this stuff all the time, and love it all, but I'd like to know if there's actually any real point to any of it..

[thisnameistaken]

I usually record direct too, but a good valve pre can really give a track character, even a bass track.

[51m0n]

Nothing wrong with the best signal you can get.

An awful lot of ways of getting there, and, most importantly, the intended final result within musical context.

You can do a massive, massive amount with plugins, there are some excellent excellent cabinet IR simulations out there. Equally there are some great tube saturation plugins.

Doesn't beat a great sounding tube rig in a good space mic'ed with a complimentory mic and a great pre hitting superb AD converters.

SImilarly the REDDI is one hell of an amazing sounding box, adds all the warmth and colour you could imagine, better than the above real amp in a real space with real heavyweight tube rig on top? For some things absolutely.

There is no right or wrong, there is just sounds good and works with the music or not.

Personally I've DI'ed for years (not from the amp, clean or post FX), the music I play doesn have much call for woolly mammoth bass sounds (not that I dont like distortion in truly epic measure, I just like it filtered to hell and back too, and the speaker cab filtering is immaterial since I like tweeters even with distortion)

Some people struggle to get the sound in their heads out of their bass DI'ed without some EQ, and in the world of digital that means latency in most cases (RME TotalMix having got that down to tiny tiny tiny amounts with its onboard EQ), so the other option is a great EQ in the analogue path, that means a preamp of some kind.

If I'm in the studio rather than at home I like the sound of opto compression a lot and often use a Joe Meek TwinQ as the bass pre-amp and use its eq a bit and plenty of compression to get a really great sound before hitting disk.

At home I'm more likely to plug the FX board straight into the RME UCX instrument ins (any of the 4 inputs on the front panel will accept line or intrument, with the two mic/trs inputs accepting mic as well, and the impedances and levels are automatically set for you - clever Germans!).

It sounds great (I love my bass without any fx at all - even EQ, the preamp stay flat I just play with pickup selection and right hand position). If I want to hit a compressor at I can hook up my Compounder, but generally I dont, I like to play it right to disc and then compress afterwards in context of the song when I'm at home. Just because.

Like I said, no right or wrong way to go about it, just a great sound for the track or not.

Edited December 7, 2012 by 51m0n

[BigRedX]

My preferred recording method is DI (using a passive DI box with good quality transformers) straight from the bass and a nice mic in front of the best sounding speaker in my rig.

Ideally the signal from the mic with a bit of corrective EQ will be the right sound for the track. The DI is there as a safety in case we decide we need a radically different bass sound. It can be treated with amp sim and other plug ins, or used to re-amp or with other outboard gear.

[paul_5]

DHA VT1 EQ for me, I've dropped the overdrive in mine by replacing the 12AX7 for a 12AU7, but other than that, that's pretty much 'my sound' these days. Nice clean DI and a very flexible EQ section coupled with a warm (but not woolly) smooth valve tone or some grit when you need it.

Ticks all of my boxes anyway.

[project_c]

Thanks for the replies, couple of questions...

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1354900870' post='1891884']
I usually record direct too, but a good valve pre can really give a track character, even a bass track.
[/quote]

Can you name a few examples? I'm interested in both the make of the valve pre, and the effect it has has on the signal. When you say 'character', are you talking about breakup / grit, or full on distortion? Or just a bit of a boost to the signal? Thanks.

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1354901626' post='1891895']
If I'm in the studio rather than at home I like the sound of opto compression a lot and often use a Joe Meek TwinQ as the bass pre-amp and use its eq a bit and plenty of compression to get a really great sound before hitting disk.
[/quote]

Thanks for the extensive reply! I'm really interested in what the Joe Meek does to your signal. I know what it does in terms of functionality, but I'm more interested in how you would describe the result of sending your signal through it. Do you get a tighter / more focussed / more balanced clean signal than if you were to record without it? Or does it bring out a bit of grit and grind when pushed? Is it always on the same setting, or do you use the EQ section to sculpt the signal into the track you are working on? (sorry, a million questions..)

[Spike Vincent]

Ampeg SVT 2 P preamp every time for me.

[umph]

Whats the input impedance on your soundcard? Using a DI to match this up is a good thing and will guarentee the cleanest sound possible and keep distortion low and bandwidth high

[51m0n]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1354909732' post='1892003']
My preferred recording method is DI (using a passive DI box with good quality transformers) straight from the bass and a nice mic in front of the best sounding speaker in my rig.

Ideally the signal from the mic with a bit of corrective EQ will be the right sound for the track. The DI is there as a safety in case we decide we need a radically different bass sound. It can be treated with amp sim and other plug ins, or used to re-amp or with other outboard gear.
[/quote]

If I'm recoring someone for whom their rig is their sound then thats what I do in terms of tracking, but I tend to use the DI for the lowest octave, since a close mic on a speaker wont have much if any of that octave going on.

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1354909965' post='1892010']
Thanks for the extensive reply! I'm really interested in what the Joe Meek does to your signal. I know what it does in terms of functionality, but I'm more interested in how you would describe the result of sending your signal through it. Do you get a tighter / more focussed / more balanced clean signal than if you were to record without it? Or does it bring out a bit of grit and grind when pushed? Is it always on the same setting, or do you use the EQ section to sculpt the signal into the track you are working on? (sorry, a million questions..)
[/quote]

I like to DI into it as that way I can turn on the iron switch and get some colour from the transformer.

It has a great compressor, with a really musical action, as for what it does for me, it does what I want, by varying the attack, release, threshold ratio and makeup gain I can change how the bass sits in the track. Its all about transient control and envelopes. Read the Recording 101 Blog on compression for more info

[ahpook]

i use an ebs microbass, and if i'm using a lot of effects (usually overdrives) i'll run a clean signal into the desk at the same time to give me something to play with after the fact.

any compression gets put on using a plug-in, but that's the only in-the-box effect i'll use, bar a bit of EQ. software emulation is OK, but i always ended up going back to external preamps...they just sound better to me.

i've also used as ampeg svp-pro and an swr studio 220 as preamps and they were nice, but i just like the simplicity (and size) of the ebs.

i never mic cabs....i have neighbours !

Edited December 7, 2012 by ahpook

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1354909965' post='1892010']Can you name a few examples? I'm interested in both the make of the valve pre, and the effect it has has on the signal. When you say 'character', are you talking about breakup / grit, or full on distortion? Or just a bit of a boost to the signal? Thanks.[/quote]

I'm no expert, it's just a friend of mine who I often record for has a pair of SPL Gold Mike pres which he loves to use on everything, and they do sound great. It's not so much about adding valve overdrive or boost (although you can surely do that if you want), but just the warmth and fullness you get from putting your signal through a good valve preamp. It's hard to describe but if you had one in an aux send and you gradually turned it up it would be obvious the simply-betterness you get back from it.

They are probably overkill if you're just recording bass (and there are a lot of good cheaper options), but I like kit like this because it gives you a recording you don't have to mess with much, unless you want to.