KingBollock Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1356023178' post='1905928'] Well yes, hopefully we can all agree that both Vinyl and CDs go round in circles! Waiting for some to contradict that now..... [/quote] Some of Big Red X's vinyl used to have a more elliptical orbit I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356022629' post='1905913'] There has subsequently been some interesting stuff about how the bones in our head may be affected by beating of frequencies above the threshold of hearing, which I reckon is a bit tenous to be honest, but I will look into it to see if I can find corroboration from other sources (I said I was fascinated by this stuff - I wasn't lying), since thats the first even remotely compelling argument I have heard for higher sampling rates other than the improved size of the transition band filter. [/quote] It may be a bit tenous, but then again, who knows until a full peer-reviewed scientific study is undertaken! Still, I've got some Jamaaladeen Tacuma upsampling away on the cd player and it sounds excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1356022777' post='1905918'] There used to be a recording on Anne Rice's website that used to play automatically. It was a very, very old recording from the late 1800's I think. It took me a long time but I found out who it was singing and what the song was, it may have been a hymn, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was now. At the time I searched desperately for similar recordings but found nothing. It was hissy and spitty, crackly and poppy but it had amazing presence, proper heart swelling stuff that left me with wet eyes. About as far from hifi as you can get but it was lovely to me. [/quote] I know what you mean; I've got a bootleg tape of Slade live in Leicester in '82. One of the few recordings of a full gig of theirs. It's in a vague stereo ish kind of format but still quite hissy, I burnt it to CD before I wore it out. Great memories of a great gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1356023051' post='1905926'] Whereas the fact - which you just confirmed and repeated - that you describe someone as "delusional" is what? A useful contribution in your eyes. Damned from your own words I believe? Do you also deride 4x4 drivers if they don't live in the country too? Anything else you'd have on your list in your small world? [/quote] In context I think its accurate. I stand by it. If you want to get the most out of quality hifi, dont put it in a crap sounding room. Untreated living rooms sound crap. Its pretty delusional if you think you are getting the most out of that gear in that room in almost all cases I can think of. Enjoy it; owning it, dusting it, and listening to it, by all means. Do I think its a useful bit of input though? Hell yes, otherwise I wouldn't have said it. Are you deluding yourself yet???? I of course 'have no soul' and am in fact incapable of appreciating music from an emotional point of view. In fact these days I just stick the adat output straight into the socket in my *&^% - that way I can enjoy all the 1's and 0's in the miost pure state possible. You dont drive a 4x4 as well do you - Range Rover Sport by any chance .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356023908' post='1905953'] You dont drive a 4x4 as well do you - Range Rover Sport by any chance .... [/quote] I've got a Land Rover Defender and a Skoda Octavia 4x4... But then we are in the middle of nowhere, 1000ft up an almost-mountain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356023908' post='1905953'] In context I think its accurate. I stand by it. If you want to get the most out of quality hifi, dont put it in a crap sounding room. Untreated living rooms sound crap. [b]Its pretty delusional if you think you are getting the most out of that gear in that room in almost all cases I can think of.[/b] Enjoy it; owning it, dusting it, and listening to it, by all means. Do I think its a useful bit of input though? Hell yes, otherwise I wouldn't have said it. Are you deluding yourself yet????[/quote] I defy you to find one single hint of a thought of an inkling of where I said - or even thought - I was getting the most out of my system? I'll leave you to trawl back, but as I said (IIRC) - it operates as well as it can within the confines of a family home (again I paraphrase) Since I live in a standard normal home rather than a lab - and I don't get as obsessive about things as you would appear to be. For you to repeat a few times a reply based on something that was never said is the grossly delusional bit. Edited December 20, 2012 by Big_Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1356024087' post='1905957'] I've got a Land Rover Defender and a Skoda Octavia 4x4... But then we are in the middle of nowhere, 1000ft up an almost-mountain! [/quote] Land Rover Defender, class vehicle. Half way up a mountain. Quality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1356020826' post='1905865'] EDIT: Also, like Si, i've had my mind changed on this forum, and I'm much better educated from reading these in depth discussions [/quote] Me too. In fact, these sorts of discussions are always better when people provide background facts/references to back up their points. Meanwhile, the pathetic attempts to calm things down by diverting our thoughts towards custard/cream/ice-cream/parsnips/whatever have completely overlooked possibly the biggest culinary controversey at this time of year. . . . namely: Brussels sprouts - yes or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1356025164' post='1905977']Brussels sprouts - yes or no?[/quote] Hell yeah - and to hell with the consequences, if she loves you she'll join in............... just more discretely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1356023051' post='1905926'] Whereas the fact - which you just confirmed and repeated - that you describe someone as "delusional" is what? A useful contribution in your eyes. Damned from your own words I believe? [/quote] It wasnt even aimed specifically at [i]you[/i]! I didnt describe [i]you [/i]delusional, I described anyone spending that much money on a system in an untreated room as delusional. Its a completely general point. I stand by it utterly. As[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/193794-cd-verses-vinyl/page__view__findpost__p__1895457"] I went on to say[/url], you cant make an objective critique of reproduction in a room that has s%$£ acoustics. Not you as in [i]you specifically Big_Stu, [/i]but you as in everyone[i]. [/i]Jeez! However you definitely pointed the 'no soul' dig directly and specifically at me. Ta for that, that was nice that was. Obviously the Kit Richardson stuff was mixed with a sliderule I'm starting to think we are all better off for the gun control policy of this country with you in it.... [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1356024138' post='1905960'] I defy you to find one single hint of a thought of an inkling of where I said - or even thought - I was getting the most out of my system? For you to repeat a few times a reply based on something that was never said is the grossly delusional bit. [/quote] So if you cant get the most out of your system, how can you objectively even begin to make comparisons with it? Any comparison you make is going to be highly flawed. They very thing you like about the "sound of vinyl" may actually be because of the room. And CD is in fact doing a better job, but you cant tell becasue the room is wrecking your ability to perceive that. Does that even make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1356025164' post='1905977'] Me too. In fact, these sorts of discussions are always better when people provide background facts/references to back up their points. Meanwhile, the pathetic attempts to calm things down by diverting our thoughts towards custard/cream/ice-cream/parsnips/whatever have completely overlooked possibly the biggest culinary controversey at this time of year. . . . namely: Brussels sprouts - yes or no? [/quote] Only with decent gravy. But I warn you now, you will regret it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356025507' post='1905987'] It wasnt even aimed specifically at [i]you[/i]! I didnt describe [i]you [/i]delusional, I described anyone spending that much money on a system in an untreated room as delusional.[/quote] That is the most infantile cop-out I have ever read on this entire forum. Come on, you can do better than that - try again........... [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356025507' post='1905987']So if you cant get the most out of your system, how can you objectively even begin to make comparisons with it? Any comparison you make is going to be highly flawed. They very thing you like about the "sound of vinyl" may actually be because of the room. And CD is in fact doing a better job, but you cant tell becasue the room is wrecking your ability to perceive that. Does that even make sense?[/quote] Well that pretty much screws up any car reviews you might read. Any BMW, Porsche or any other car for that matter that hasn't been tuned to perfection, any limiters removed & driven under absolutely perfect weather conditions can't be given a worthy comparison worth reading and all those drivers are going to be cruising along thinking "It's crap this car, it's so flawed". It must be great being you, living on such a perfect different planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356025507' post='1905987'] It wasnt even aimed specifically at [i]you[/i]! I didnt describe [i]you [/i]delusional, I described anyone spending that much money on a system in an untreated room as delusional. [/quote] That would be me, as my system was quite a bit more than that However, just because a room is largely untreated doesn't necessarily mean it's acoustically poor. My system sounds quite a bit better than a lot of studio control rooms I've worked in, despite them being treated. All those large hard surfaces most certainly don't help. My room has no parallel walls (even the ceiling isn't parallel to the floor!), they're horsehair and lime plastered - which is quite sound absorbing - plus judicious use of soft furnishings in the right places can work wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Yeah, but car reviews ARE about as crappy as Hifi reviews aren't they? Edited December 20, 2012 by flyfisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1356026145' post='1906006'] Yeah, but car reviews ARE about as crappy as Hifi reviews aren't they? [/quote] .............. and don't even START him on reviews of in-car hi-fi systems! "oooh, that gear stick will have to go - and what's that big round thing for? - it'll ruin the acoustics!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1356023302' post='1905932'] Some of Big Red X's vinyl used to have a more elliptical orbit I believe. [/quote] Don't remind me! After posting that the last time I went on a search for the album in question thinking that someone somewhere must have re-released it even if it was only in download format. I managed to find some of the tracks on a music blog, but even those had been taken from a copy of the off-centre vinyl pressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1356026145' post='1906006'] Yeah, but car reviews ARE about as crappy as Hifi reviews aren't they? [/quote] [url=http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/3tweaks/1.html]Possibly not![/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1356025942' post='1906001'] That is the most infantile cop-out I have ever read on this entire forum. Come on, you can do better than that - try again........... Well that pretty much screws up any car reviews you might read. Any BMW, Porsche or any other car for that matter that hasn't been tuned to perfection, any limiters removed & driven under absolutely perfect weather conditions can't be given a worthy comparison worth reading and all those drivers are going to be cruising along thinking "It's crap this car, it's so flawed". It must be great being you, living on such a perfect different planet. [/quote] Its not a cop out, its what was said, you took it to mean a direct pop at you, it wasnt; in the context of the page a lot of people were talking about far higher figures than that (£20k turntables ffs!). You really do have an issue about this dont you.... What the f*** have car reviews got to do with it?? Its nothing to do with living on a perfect planet BS, its about not talking bs. Which is difficult of you base your opinions on subjective observations that are predicatably flawed.It was not a personal vendetta, although you have done an ace job of turning it into one in your head ..... Look if you dont accept that the acoustics of the room have anything to do with it you [b][i]are[/i][/b] a nutter, delusion, incapable of rational thought and in all likelihood in need of some time alone in the little room with the white coat. And yes, that [b][i]is[/i][/b] pointed directly at you, and anyone else who thinks the same way.... [quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1356026042' post='1906002'] That would be me, as my system was quite a bit more than that However, just because a room is largely untreated doesn't necessarily mean it's acoustically poor. My system sounds quite a bit better than a lot of studio control rooms I've worked in, despite them being treated. All those large hard surfaces most certainly don't help. My room has no parallel walls (even the ceiling isn't parallel to the floor!), they're horsehair and lime plastered - which is quite sound absorbing - plus judicious use of soft furnishings in the right places can work wonders. [/quote] Yes, but as you well know being lucky enough to have a room with all non-parallel walls etc etc is very equivalent to the design of many decent control rooms, you are a big jump ahead of the crowd there, and arent in a 'normal living room' at all then. Makes a lot of sense now. Especially if by sheer luck you also happen to have a room that doesnt have dimensions that work together to create nasty peaks and nulls. By sheer fluke - lucky git! I've been in some really dire sounding control rooms too, usually 'designed' by people who didnt really understand the concepts they were trying to work to (be they Live End Dead End, Reflection Free Zone, Early Sound Scattering or whatever) most often by either as you suggest the great big console reflecting sound nastily alongside huge racks of gear and also more often than not making a mistake with dimesnions to cause some really nasty peaks and nulls. They arent all great rooms! Bad rooms dont create mixes that translate well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1356026735' post='1906015'] [url="http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/3tweaks/1.html"]Possibly not![/url] [/quote] Holy s*** Batman.... W T F !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356027622' post='1906025']Look if you dont accept that the acoustics of the room have anything to do with it you [b][i]are[/i][/b] a nutter, delusion, incapable of rational thought and in all likelihood in need of some time alone in the little room with the white coat. And yes, that [b][i]is[/i][/b] pointed directly at you, and anyone else who thinks the same way....[/quote] .......... and again, in the same way that I defied you to find any place where I said my system was at it's best, I defy you to find where I said that. You should recognise that you've lost it when you have to make up what someone is alleged to have said & then make sarcastic replies to it. I would strongly suggest you follow your own advice in your last sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356027622' post='1906025'] Yes, but as you well know being lucky enough to have a room with all non-parallel walls etc etc is very equivalent to the design of many decent control rooms, you are a big jump ahead of the crowd there, and arent in a 'normal living room' at all then. Makes a lot of sense now. Especially if by sheer luck you also happen to have a room that doesnt have dimensions that work together to create nasty peaks and nulls. By sheer fluke - lucky git! [/quote] Sheer fluke? We spent ages looking for the right house - the Mrs didn't quite understand what I was doing in certain rooms with a tape measure and calculator! Not sad at all, me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1356028280' post='1906036'] Sheer fluke? We spent ages looking for the right house - the Mrs didn't quite understand what I was doing in certain rooms with a tape measure and calculator! Not sad at all, me! [/quote] Genius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1356027856' post='1906031'] .......... and again, in the same way that I defied you to find any place where I said my system was at it's best, I defy you to find where I said that. You should recognise that you've lost it when you have to make up what someone is alleged to have said & then make sarcastic replies to it. I would strongly suggest you follow your own advice in your last sentence. [/quote] I defy [i]you [/i]to say where [i]I [/i]said what you did or did not believe, Ooooh touche, two can play at the game nah-nah-na-nahh-nahhhh. I said[b] [i]if[/i][/b] [i]you believe that[/i]. Which actually is quite different . Mmmmm I can smell the vinyl warmth from here, its a bit like brussel sprouts Carry on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1356036591' post='1906161'] I defy [i]you [/i]to say where [i]I [/i]said what you did or did not believe, Ooooh touche, two can play at the game nah-nah-na-nahh-nahhhh. I said[b] [i]if[/i][/b] [i]you believe that[/i]. Which actually is quite different .[/quote] Really can't stand not having everyone agree with you can you? Surreal. I'm going to leave this now since it's taken you another 3 pages in one day to reveal your true mentality; now that you descended as far as you have; I have better things to do. In your little constricted mind you can puff your chest out now & say "I've won - yay me!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Whatever... Whose for clotted cream? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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