Basskiller666 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Hey guys, Ive recently purchased a Mesa Boogie M9 Carbine (900w), Im super impressed and got it at a killer price hence why I went for the M9 over the M6 plus it has the option of on board compression and 9 band eq. I am using a Trace Elliot old school 1048H Cab rated at 300w. The cab is obviously not built to handle 900w that the Mesa is putting out as it breaking down and farting even at low volumes. Im looking at staying with a quad cab for transporting purposes, I guess im after some opinions as to wheather I upgrade to 4 x 250w drivers, if so which ones would be recommened, as opposed to upgrading to a 1000w cab, and again what brand of cab would people recommend in that regard? Im looking at the Hartke hydrive 1000w quad cab, are these a reliable option? I have also had a few people tell me I dont really need a 1000w cab to handle to 900w, is this true? Im a tad confused as what I should do. Appreciate any feedback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Watt ratings are effectively meaningless on cabs, so best ignore them. If a cab sounds good to you, but is farting out before you are loud enough, you need to get another one of those cabs to use in addition. The watts doesn't relate to where they fart out, but where they fart out does relate to where they'll break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 The above is sound advice, Mr F knows his stuff! But personally I'd always be way too paranoid to use a cab that isn't rated as high or higher than my amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='Basskiller666' timestamp='1355094218' post='1894058'] The cab is obviously not built to handle 900w that the Mesa is putting out as it breaking down and farting even at low volumes. [/quote] This bit says the amp is putting out more/lower lows that the one you used previously, its not a watts thing as much as a voicing thing. If there is a graphic eq, what's the lowest slider? If its 50hz or below, pull it down, frequencies that fart out your cabs aren't going to be missed in your tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basskiller666 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Thanks Mr Foxen I will give that a try, Although I do already have that pulled down quite low, btw the lowest slider is 33Hz. So do you think If my amp is set up right my 300w cab should be able to handle it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1355094672' post='1894066'] The above is sound advice, Mr F knows his stuff! But personally I'd always be way too paranoid to use a cab that isn't rated as high or higher than my amp [/quote] Plenty of people use amps way over their cabs rating, I'm one for a start as are quite a few folk with 900watt heads I guess? How many people on this site alone have a genz streamliner 900 and a single neox 2x12T for a start? (I have a shuttlemax 9.2 and a neox cab) the ratings are a nonsense on most stuff anyway, use the old lug holes I say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='Basskiller666' timestamp='1355095511' post='1894082'] Thanks Mr Foxen I will give that a try, Although I do already have that pulled down quite low, btw the lowest slider is 33Hz. So do you think If my amp is set up right my 300w cab should be able to handle it? [/quote] Do you play a five string? Humans ears don't work that low anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355095962' post='1894090'] Plenty of people use amps way over their cabs rating, I'm one for a start as are quite a few folk with 900watt heads I guess? How many people on this site alone have a genz streamliner 900 and a single neox 2x12T for a start? (I have a shuttlemax 9.2 and a neox cab) the ratings are a nonsense on most stuff anyway, use the old lug holes I say [/quote] I should do the same, but I prefer not to have that nagging thought at the back of my mind I wouldn't be able to judge using my ears anyways, my main tone is heavily compressed and goes through two stages of overdrive before it reaches the amp but then I doubt I'll ever need more than 500w so I don't need to worry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Could just save lugging all your fx gear and get an old hh cab and crank it up then , probably sound the same! I have gone the other way and gone super clean, must be my age, damn kids and their punk rock and 8 track players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355096909' post='1894113'] Could just save lugging all your fx gear and get an old hh cab and crank it up then , probably sound the same! I have gone the other way and gone super clean, must be my age, damn kids and their punk rock and 8 track players [/quote] Hahaha you might be right there! But this way I get the knackered speakers sound without the risk of sudden silence, smoke, fire, and cones flying out at breakneck speed I went through a super clean phase for ages, hence the Markbass rig! But then I discovered just how nasty this thing sounds with distortion and I couldn't resist! I am the nemesis of tone purists everywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='Basskiller666' timestamp='1355095511' post='1894082'] Thanks Mr Foxen I will give that a try, Although I do already have that pulled down quite low, btw the lowest slider is 33Hz. So do you think If my amp is set up right my 300w cab should be able to handle it? [/quote] 33hz is a pull it all the way down one, nothing useful there, just cab breakage. Your cab will let you know when it isn't handling it by farting out, its whether that is loud enough for you before then that is the important bit. Watts have no bearing on either. If it was loud enough before, with the right eq, it should be loud enough now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basskiller666 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the advice Mr F, [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355096073' post='1894093'] Do you play a five string? Humans ears don't work that low anyway. [/quote] Yes I play an ESP F205 tuned to c but rarely touch the top string ( low b that is.. Edited December 10, 2012 by Basskiller666 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Can't see your current cab is going to be much use.... it is way underpowered. That is not to say it isn't usable but it is only a stop-gap. Nothing in the cab that will suggest replacing the units is a good idea, either, IMO. To use anything near 900, you will be looking at two cabs, generally, anyway. I'd prefer something more modern..as opposed to modern sounding, but you could look an Eden or SWR 410 from their pro range... or Ampeg. They seem to be available for decent money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basskiller666 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1355098403' post='1894138'] Can't see your current cab is going to be much use.... it is way underpowered. That is not to say it isn't usable but it is only a stop-gap. Nothing in the cab that will suggest replacing the units is a good idea, either, IMO. To use anything near 900, you will be looking at two cabs, generally, anyway. I'd prefer something more modern..as opposed to modern sounding, but you could look an Eden or SWR 410 from their pro range... or Ampeg. They seem to be available for decent money... [/quote] So if I was to say add a 15" cab would that suffice? And if so what watt rating should it ideally be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basskiller666 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 Anyone have any thoughts on the Hartke Hydrive 4 x 10? seems to be the resonably priced for me, but if need be i will have to save my $$ for a little longer to get a Eden or Ampeg, essentially I would like the Mesa 6 x 10 Powerhouse but that is way out of my budget at this point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 In this regard, I always want more cab power than amp... and if you are running effects, this makes it more sensible, IMO. Another 15 will get your combined cab power to around 600...and I think that will be more that loud enough...but at very loud gig levels, you could still easy blow a speaker esp if you can't hear the speaker break-up because of effects..?? Plus TE cabs are likely to have had a hard life...ie having been used lots, so not the freshest of units..? But yes..anothe TE option is probably the cheapest option... I'd go for a decent 212 myself...for carry and volume ,,, but the cab will still not have enough watts, ..... but you need to accept that one cab will always come up short,,,unless you are talking 610 upwards.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Are you really going to be using this amp flat out? So talking about 900 watts isn't really going to be very relevant. You bought 900 watts because of the good price, not to play loud, so if you're in a normal band you'll be using between 100-300 watts at most. That's a lot of headroom, which is good for your tone. I'd suggest a Barefaced S12T or a good 4 ohm 410. Either could see your band asking you to turn down. You could knock down walls with the Mesa 810 in the classifieds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Well as the amp throws oout 450 watts at 8ohms, or 900 watts at 4ohms, I`d be tempted to look out for a 410 that handles some 600 to 800 watts at 8ohms. I can`t see 450 watts not being enough in all but the biggest of stages, and this way at a later point, add another of the same for a really killer rig if needed/wanted. The Ampeg PF 410 is a great cab, and - on spec - handles 800 watts at 8ohms. Great sounding cab too. Markbass cabs are very nice sounding too - my personal fave. I had a Hydrive 410, and found it very "modern" sounding. Plenty of punch, but not the depth and warmth that I like. Plus the efficiency of the cab wasn`t too high, so I had to run my amp louder than usual - though with the power you have at hand, not really an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Just from using them in rehearsal rooms I wonder if a lot of the problems with those Trace 410s farting out is down to their being tuned a bit high to give more upper-bass oomph, leaving the cones undamped at lower frequencies. At any rate it wouldn't cost anything to try blocking one of the ports, which would lower cab resonance and offer a bit more protection. Depends where the problem lies though, it could make it worse - but worth a go perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 A Trace 410 is a very loud cab, IMO don't mess with it and save that money until you get enough to buy the Powerhouse 610. In the meantime listen to Mr Foxen's advise, there's no problem in running the amp with that cab, you just need to EQ it so that you don't damage your cab. Cut the 33Hz slider completely and maybe a bit on the 80Hz too, if you need bottom get it on the 180Hz, it'll give a tighter and controled bottom. Don't go too crazy on the Bass knob also, i had a Walkabout and it pumped serious bottom so i never had to go past 13o'clock on the bass knob and cutted almost everything below 50Hz on the parametric. If you set your EQ right you'll have more than enough power handling on your cab to be loud on every stage you can think of. A word of advice to the population, if you say you can't be loud enough with any Trace cab (one of the oldies) then you must really should think about seing an ear doctor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basskiller666 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1355142873' post='1894499'] A Trace 410 is a very loud cab, IMO don't mess with it and save that money until you get enough to buy the Powerhouse 610. In the meantime listen to Mr Foxen's advise, there's no problem in running the amp with that cab, you just need to EQ it so that you don't damage your cab. Cut the 33Hz slider completely and maybe a bit on the 80Hz too, if you need bottom get it on the 180Hz, it'll give a tighter and controled bottom. Don't go too crazy on the Bass knob also, i had a Walkabout and it pumped serious bottom so i never had to go past 13o'clock on the bass knob and cutted almost everything below 50Hz on the parametric. If you set your EQ right you'll have more than enough power handling on your cab to be loud on every stage you can think of. A word of advice to the population, if you say you can't be loud enough with any Trace cab (one of the oldies) then you must really should think about seing an ear doctor... [/quote] Thanks for that advice ghost bass, will definatly try it out and let you know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I have a Hydrive rig with the 4 x 10 cab and LH1000 amp- really reaaly loud and clear - easily enough bass for anyone- a bit modern sounding- powerful tweeter ( I switch it off as seems to scoop the mids a bit too much. ) Used my LH1000 with an old Peavey 2 x 10 rated at 375W with no problems whatsoever- 4 ohm cab. LOUD enough for anyone. Cab worth about £30 and ancient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basskiller666 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 So I am reading pretty good reveiws on the Fender Rumble 410 1000w @ 4 ohms and retail under $500 bucks, anybody had any dealings with these cabs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basskiller666 Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 [quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1355144085' post='1894514'] I have a Hydrive rig with the 4 x 10 cab and LH1000 amp- really reaaly loud and clear - easily enough bass for anyone- a bit modern sounding- powerful tweeter ( I switch it off as seems to scoop the mids a bit too much. ) Used my LH1000 with an old Peavey 2 x 10 rated at 375W with no problems whatsoever- 4 ohm cab. LOUD enough for anyone. Cab worth about £30 and ancient. [/quote] After researching more on the Hydrive its only an 8 ohm cab, Im really chasing a 4 ohm cab to save on using two cabs but thanks for your thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 [quote name='Basskiller666' timestamp='1355144119' post='1894517'] So I am reading pretty good reveiws on the Fender Rumble 410 1000w @ 4 ohms and retail under $500 bucks, anybody had any dealings with these cabs? [/quote] The only thing I`ve heard was a fellow Basschatter tried them out, and said they were an old-school type sounding cab, warm/rich bass sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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