Barefootbassplayer Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Just a general question for you all to consider.....maybe I'm looking back with rose tinted glasses here! I remember playing on bills with 3, 4, 5 other bands ten years ago and turning up, meeting all of the other bands, hanging out and having a laugh and...most importantly...all of the bands would hang around for each others sets and clap and holler and help create a great vibe. Bearing in mind if its a school night or out of the way venue the other musicians could count for half the audience!! Over the past few years I've noticed this decline, bands soundchecking and then leaving the venue only to arrive for their stage time, in some very rude cases actually taking their equipment out of the venue post performance through the audience whilst other bands have been playing. I really enjoy checking out other bands and have seen some really great talent doing this, some who have actually gone on to make names for themselves as well. As well as this we've been able to gig swap, form new bands, share horror stories and make new mates. It just seems a real shame that this side of the 'musicians code', if you like, has fallen away. I actually get a bit annoyed at my fellow band mates when they do this! Am I just grumpy, am I getting old, does this even matter to bands any more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 And definitely avoid "head-lining" at such events. All it means is that it will be you and a few die-hard supporters left when you go on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barefootbassplayer Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1355230691' post='1895606'] And definitely avoid "head-lining" at such events. All it means is that it will be you and a few die-hard supporters left when you go on [/quote] Ha yep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I know what you mean! We like to stick around and see the other acts, it's only manners after all and they cost nowt. However, not all the band stick around for these for the simple reason that we might not enjoy what is going on. I wouldn't expect other bands to listen my set if they didn't like it. We have had a gig where it was heaving, every seat taken and a crowd standing at the back watching the acts, just as the second to last band finish, the crowd leaves before we go on! In a way it's good bands bring a crowd, but the downside is they bring the crowd for their own band. 'Headlining' means nothing these days and it's often best to go on second last in an attempt to tap into another bands crowd. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The gigs sound soul-destroying to me... If you don't play to a crowd, I don't see the point, so this sounds like the death-knell of a band . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I think that bands need to look closely at the sort of multi-band gigs that they do and what the other bands on the bill are like. Too many of them are 3-5 bands seemingly chosen at random (probably because they were the first ones on the promoter's list who said yes to that particular date) who each come and go with their own audience. Other than for some practice at quick change-overs and playing with a minimal soundcheck these events simply aren't worth doing. On the other hand a good promoter will pick bands that compliment each other musically and whose audiences will stay for the whole evening. It's certainly easier if you play music that falls into identifiable genres. In these scenes I've found that bands and audiences are very supportive and if you are any good word to that effect will travel fast. BTW IME crap multi-band gigs have been going since the mid 80s and probably earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Sometimes it just works that way - no promotion, all the bands from out of town etc. We played last night and were the 4th act out of 5. Most of the audience stayed around for the headliners including ourselves - well we had to, they were using our amps. And I`m very glad we did too, as for one, I too agree with "the code" but for another reason, they were great, a band called The Dash. Anyone gets a chance, go see `em, really good lively band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I've just been through this thread and looked at where you're all based - I'd been kidding myself that this was just a problem in central London. But I don't know, do these sorts of gigs dominate the scene where you are? I agree entirely, it sucks all the life and soul out of a gig when the band before you files in five minutes before they're due on, with all their friends in tow, then vanish out the door the moment they've put their guitars away, taking said friends with them. They must realise it's self-defeating: sure, you may have dragged lots of friends along, but they're not going to [i]keep[/i] coming to see you. Why not chat to some of the other people in the audience, and engage with them? Oh wait, you can't, because the band before you did exactly the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyc Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I havent been gigging regularly for a couple of years now but I remember these types of shows all too well. Seemed to happen rather alot as I recall. Although we've very occasionally left straight after our set we almost always used to stick around to watch the other bands and hand out fliers etc, try and sell some merch. It takes half the fun out of gigging if you're not gonna engage with the crowd and do some networking with the other bands; it's a great way to build your fanbase and open up future opportunities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) Unless they are very lucky (or include someone who's already well known in the line-up) every originals band has to do a few of these in their early days. Yes most of them are product of the London scene (although we've found plenty of good London gigs once we'd got our foot in the door) but there are plenty of these things happening all over the country. We now ask for details of the other bands playing and turn down gigs where there isn't at least one other "compatible" band on the bill. Luckily for us most of the gigs we get offered these days are all psychobilly/garage/punk/goth so it's no longer a problem. Edited December 11, 2012 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote name='Barefootbassplayer' timestamp='1355230038' post='1895596'] Just a general question for you all to consider.....maybe I'm looking back with rose tinted glasses here! I remember playing on bills with 3, 4, 5 other bands ten years ago and turning up, meeting all of the other bands, hanging out and having a laugh and...most importantly...all of the bands would hang around for each others sets and clap and holler and help create a great vibe. Bearing in mind if its a school night or out of the way venue the other musicians could count for half the audience!! Over the past few years I've noticed this decline, bands soundchecking and then leaving the venue only to arrive for their stage time, in some very rude cases actually taking their equipment out of the venue post performance through the audience whilst other bands have been playing. I really enjoy checking out other bands and have seen some really great talent doing this, some who have actually gone on to make names for themselves as well. As well as this we've been able to gig swap, form new bands, share horror stories and make new mates. It just seems a real shame that this side of the 'musicians code', if you like, has fallen away. I actually get a bit annoyed at my fellow band mates when they do this! Am I just grumpy, am I getting old, does this even matter to bands any more? [/quote] what musicians code? I try to avoid these events, but sometimes I end up playing in some, with the originals band. I sometimes watch other bands. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I have other things to do (like the time I missed another BC's band who played after mine ) and other times I may have seen enough at soundcheck and there's no way I want to inflict that painful experience on myself again. Musicians' code? What does it matter if other band stays or not? Cool if they do. Cool if they don't. I want peope to see my band because they really want to, not as captives. And if you worry about the audience numbers dropping because two bands are not there... then you just don't have an audience anyway. I have at times played and taken my amp away... why would I wait another hour or 90min? If I am not interested in staying to watch the other band... why would I stay? It seems odd to me. How is it being rude? I have also many times provided my amp for other bands. Even in some situations where our band was not the last one. I sometimes do that, others I don't. There is no fast rule. Musicians code? I find that a non-insignificant proportion of band members (in other bands, obviously, in mine they are all great ) are *plonkers*. I do not feel any kind of empathy or affinity towards them only because we happen to have a musical interest in common. There is no musicians code, there is only being decent human beings. That means being polite, friendly, etc. That we do. But some "musicians" seem to have a sense of entitlement that I really do not share. They seem to be the same ones that get upset because you don't stay to see them play. Well, that's their problem. I personally do not hold any grudges towards anybody who does not stay to see my band, I'm just appreciative of the ones who do stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1355230691' post='1895606'] And definitely avoid "head-lining" at such events. All it means is that it will be you and a few die-hard supporters left when you go on [/quote] oh, and that too! it also means you will be in first, and out last... The first time I saw our guitarist "and we are headlining!!!" all happy... I wanted to cry and laugh at the same time. Then I said "ok, this time it's ok, next time let me be there when we negotiate the details" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 [quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1355237229' post='1895756'] I agree entirely, it sucks all the life and soul out of a gig when the band before you files in five minutes before they're due on, with all their friends in tow, then vanish out the door the moment they've put their guitars away, taking said friends with them. They must realise it's self-defeating: sure, you may have dragged lots of friends along, but they're not going to [i]keep[/i] coming to see you. [/quote] THAT is the problem. Many of those gigs are based around bringing FRIENDS. Friends that generally only go because you are there, and they will say you rawk... but, would they go to see your band, if you were not in it? That's also not a real audience. A real audience is people who don't know you personally but are there because they like your band already, or they chose to go in and check some bands they did not know. That's also why "promoters" keep putting these crap events, with up to five bands playing 35min each... why so many bands? because they count on each band bringing a handful of "friends", and that way make up enough numbers. If they could get away with 8 bands playing 15min, they would try that too. Those are the gigs I flatly refuse to do. I have done a few of those, and they are pointless, unless you are new and you just want some experience. Fortunately, there are some good promoters, rare but good, who try to hold events that appeal to a real audience, with coherent music styles, bringing some better known bands headlining and adding some "local talent" in the mix... It pays to find out who they are, and make sure your band is visible to them. The other type of crap multiband gig... you don't need a promoter. You can do the work yourselves... it's not that expensive to hire a venue... if it's going to be a crap gig, let it be at least YOUR crap gig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Unless it's a covers band playing well known good music, 2 hours of live music is about all most people can take. Even at festivals there is something else to do or see. If you're doing an outdoor gig and the weather is nice people will sit on the outskirts and talk etc. I think 3 bands each playing 30mins is enough. I've been to gigs to see a friend's band and stayed to watch the next band (who were dire). I would have left and not waited for the last band if I hadn't known the second band were only on for 30mins. However they overstayed their welcome and at 45mins I was ready to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 We have a policy (read that as directive from our frontman) that we support the other acts on the bill. I agree with the sentiment of the original post. It's polite & well mannered. It's quite often not reciprocated though. It's usually better when the bands are in the same genre. Being signed to a small indie label we definitely have that old school family vibe when we play with the other Clubhouse Records acts. We have a 5 band bill next week & that will be more of a Christmas party than a gig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I won't stay and see a band if I don't like them, but I'll make sure give them all a listen. but yes 'headlining' at multi-band gigs is most often just a pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1355256929' post='1896100'] Unless it's a covers band playing well known good music, 2 hours of live music is about all most people can take. Even at festivals there is something else to do or see. If you're doing an outdoor gig and the weather is nice people will sit on the outskirts and talk etc. I think 3 bands each playing 30mins is enough. I've been to gigs to see a friend's band and stayed to watch the next band (who were dire). I would have left and not waited for the last band if I hadn't known the second band were only on for 30mins. However they overstayed their welcome and at 45mins I was ready to leave. [/quote] some bands play too long if they play longer than one-two songs we regularly play 90min (all originals) and they usually ask us for more... I guess it depends on the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The best gig we ever did, we went on first out of 5 bands. Managed to get every member of the audience having a blast within 3 songs, despite the fact that the only people there who had ever heard of us were the 7 people we sold tickets to. Tapping into 4 bands audiences is quite useful, especially when 2 of them are a very similar genre. We never leave before the last band has played though. All equipment goes backstage/sidestage/wherever until the crowd have gone. Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1355234944' post='1895709'] The gigs sound soul-destroying to me... If you don't play to a crowd, I don't see the point, so this sounds like the death-knell of a band . [/quote] And how do you know that's going to happen, how are a bunch of youngsters going to get experience of playing live, how many massive bands had to do these gigs before they got to be in your position where you have this guaranteed crowd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355317703' post='1896803'] And how do you know that's going to happen, how are a bunch of youngsters going to get experience of playing live, how many massive bands had to do these gigs before they got to be in your position where you have this guaranteed crowd? [/quote] I never take a crowd for granted but we do our homework. We've done the usual London circuit which was on these sames lines....hasn't everyone..?? But any mistakes we make..we don't tend to make again. 1 gig of this ilk is kind of forgiveable but you should get the message about what works for you and what doesn't. This is also why I like money to be a factor in these gigs... it SHOULD focus the minds on what needs to be done. We have this 'bunch of youngsters experience thing' all the time and, tbh, they will have to get their arse in gear as does everyone else. That allpies to any band as well, as far as I am concerned... For me, I was working function circuits at 16 or 17 and it was a great learning curve. I have the most time for kids who will promote their own shows and also come along and support others.. Depends on your emphasis, but you can either do the gigs that get you out to play... or you can do the gigs that you wnat to do, but you have to work it. There are gigs out there, you just have to get them...but it all comes down to whether people will buy what you are selling and there are no garauntees in that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Some of the best gigs I've done have been 3 bands on a bill jobs Some of the worst gigs have also. The mix of bands is critically important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1355324033' post='1896935'] I never take a crowd for granted but we do our homework. We've done the usual London circuit which was on these sames lines....hasn't everyone..?? But any mistakes we make..we don't tend to make again. 1 gig of this ilk is kind of forgiveable but you should get the message about what works for you and what doesn't. This is also why I like money to be a factor in these gigs... it SHOULD focus the minds on what needs to be done. We have this 'bunch of youngsters experience thing' all the time and, tbh, they will have to get their arse in gear as does everyone else. That allpies to any band as well, as far as I am concerned... For me, I was working function circuits at 16 or 17 and it was a great learning curve. I have the most time for kids who will promote their own shows and also come along and support others.. Depends on your emphasis, but you can either do the gigs that get you out to play... or you can do the gigs that you wnat to do, but you have to work it. There are gigs out there, you just have to get them...but it all comes down to whether people will buy what you are selling and there are no garauntees in that... [/quote] In the same way you think these gigs sound bad many 17 year olds would hate doing the function circuit, I know I would of done Edited December 12, 2012 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 No problem in choosing which gigs you do...as I say, it depends what drives you to do them... Just that you have to put the work in and get them. But if you think you are in the greatest band you'll ever be in and no will book you, then that ought to make you think about what it takes to actually get gigs. I am all for backing yourself and playing what YOU want to play... I didn't know or like waaayy more than half the stuff I played in those function bands but it taught me a lot...but by the same token no one owes you a gig. You have to make it work. I don't really have a lot of time for bands that can't get gigs...as I think there is usually a lot more than that behind it. Getting gigs if your product is good is easily achievable, IMO. Down here, it couldn't be much easier and if I had my way most of the bands wouldn't get gigs... ever There are way too many venues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Some people would rather play their own music for free to a handful of people than a packed out venue bashing out mustang sally, if they did not we would have no new bands to do covers of at functions, not even sex on fire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Well, I don't do functions as such, so people book us for what we do..or not, as it happens. If you are happy playing for a few people then fine...but I thought this thread was about playing to no-one... and my position there would be ...f*** that..!! Edited December 12, 2012 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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