stingrayPete1977 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I do both with varying degrees of success, sometimes its busy sometimes its empty regardless of what we do, if the previous band does not watch us i dont watch them, sad but true. If they are on first i always watch though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 For me it is a fine balance between playing the numbers we like...as opposed to hate, and even then, there are a few chummy ones in the set but the likes of Mustang Sally come out when the money is there, but we don't play any longer than 2hrs tops... and we don't include songs or versions that we can't live with. We do do a pretty decent version of that song tho.... The drummer hates most of the songs we do but he is more of a rocker, whereas we just pick songs. Thaqt is his problem and I suspect he stays with us as we are his best band, get the better gigs, by and large, and decent money...but that is his issue/problem. The playing is a big thing with the band and we have more than a few gears, IMO...but we are finding that pub type dates get the more average delivery, whereas we pull out the stops for the special shows...which also happen to pay more..are on decent stages and are just much better gigs all round. We do have plans for an original set but there is no way we are going to put that out for no fee or multi band gigs to zero people. I guess I am getting round to saying we are too old for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355328932' post='1897023'] Some people would rather play their own music for free to a handful of people than a packed out venue bashing out mustang sally, if they did not we would have no new bands to do covers of at functions, not even sex on fire! [/quote] The object of playing gigs is to get exposure for your music to a new audience and grow your fan base. If you just want to play to your mates then stay local and do 3 or 4 gigs a year. It's a lot easier to retain that kind of audience as they don't have to travel and you're not overplaying your set. Learning your trade doing functions or playing covers in a pub band is a good foundation for any musician. It would be better if there was an MC who decided how much longer you play. Start at 20mins and if the audience like it add 10mins at a time. If the audience start to drift then it's everyone off the stage and next band on. I've been played at too many times. If the audience don't like your music, you won't win them over by blasting your music at them and shouting at them. If people don't like your music you need to ask them why and change, there's far too much self indulgent wailing out there. A lot of it on x-factor... Edited December 12, 2012 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 That's not really my point at all but hey what the heck who cares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1355346276' post='1897313'] The object of playing gigs is to get exposure for your music to a new audience and grow your fan base. [/quote] i'd day primarily it's to entertain the audience ! i was going to type a big reply here but when it comes down to it there are as many reasons why people are in bands as there are people. the most i made from any gig in the 25 years i've played in originals bands would struggle to tickle £50, and the most i've played to (captive audiences aside) is ~150. i'm happy with that. i've made some people very happy with my music. rock on ! Edited December 12, 2012 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355354849' post='1897443'] That's not really my point at all but hey what the heck who cares [/quote] The OP was, or seemed to be, saying that bands and other band's fans weren't staying to listen to other bands play. The point I'm making is what is the point in travelling to a far off location, hoping there will be a few people come to see your band, if it's not to expose new people to your music, and get them to bring their friends? If you're just going to play to the same people who follow you round each time what is the point of playing non local gigs? What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1355356142' post='1897465'] i'd day primarily it's to entertain the audience ! i was going to type a big reply here but when it comes down to it there are as many reasons why people are in bands as there are people. the most i made from any gig in the 25 years i've played in originals bands would struggle to tickle £50, and the most i've played to (captive audiences aside) is ~150. i'm happy with that. i've made some people very happy with my music. rock on ! [/quote] Well yes, if you don't entain the audience they won't stay and won't bring their friends next time. But without the audience there is no one to entertain. So primarily you need an audience and you need to grow and widen that audience because tastes change and your music changes. Fans drift away and new fans come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1355358293' post='1897482'] Well yes, if you don't entain the audience they won't stay and won't bring their friends next time. But without the audience there is no one to entertain. So primarily you need an audience and you need to grow and widen that audience because tastes change and your music changes. Fans drift away and new fans come. [/quote] all very true, but as i said it depends on what you want out of it. not everyone approaches bands in the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1355358293' post='1897482'] Well yes, if you don't entain the audience they won't stay and won't bring their friends next time. But without the audience there is no one to entertain. So primarily you need an audience and you need to grow and widen that audience because tastes change and your music changes. Fans drift away and new fans come. [/quote] but your audience needs to be larger than that other band or bands who may play on the same bill... substantially larger... so what does it matter whther they stay or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1355358973' post='1897489'] all very true, but as i said it depends on what you want out of it. not everyone approaches bands in the same way. [/quote] I don't understand why anyone would be in a band, go to the effort of finding a venue or promoter to put on a gig, cart loads of stuff to a gig, do loads of practicing and get music honed with the aim of playing to an empty room. They may as well just get a rehearsal space. There are only three reasons I can see for playing in a band. 1. Entertain an audience. 2. Entertain yourself. 3. Further yourself as a musicain by playing with others. If you're not interested in no. 1, then what's the point in stepping outside the rehearsal room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1355366526' post='1897519'] but your audience needs to be larger than that other band or bands who may play on the same bill... substantially larger... so what does it matter whther they stay or not? [/quote] If people leave before you play they don't get exposed to your music and you lose potential new fans. My take on this would be to give out flyers before you play that can be exchanged for goodies (CDs, etc) after you have played. If they leave after your first song, then they don't like you and wouldn't want a CD and you've not lost anything. You then get a strong message if people start leaving during your set or don't pick up a CD after you play. Edited December 13, 2012 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1355390448' post='1897599'] I don't understand why anyone would be in a band, go to the effort of finding a venue or promoter to put on a gig, cart loads of stuff to a gig, do loads of practicing and get music honed with the aim of playing to an empty room. They may as well just get a rehearsal space. There are only three reasons I can see for playing in a band. 1. Entertain an audience. 2. Entertain yourself. 3. Further yourself as a musicain by playing with others. If you're not interested in no. 1, then what's the point in stepping outside the rehearsal room? [/quote] Thing is, it's almost impossible to tell how busy the place is going to be until you turn up. We've played gigs that haven't been advertised much and have had a good attendence, we've also played gigs that haven't been advertised much and literally had no one there. Of course the more the night is advertised the better the chance of people turning up. I've certainly noticed that its very hit and miss up here in the north east, but we've recently played for a promoter with a great turn out and he seems to be consistent, so we're sticking with him. The recent one had 4 acts, largely not great quality, the usual busker 'singer songwriter' kind, but there was a crowd. They weren't there for those artists specifically and then buggered off. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1355390448' post='1897599'] I don't understand why anyone would be in a band, go to the effort of finding a venue etc [/quote] i don't understand why people do a lot of things they do for pleasure, but i don't deny that they do derive pleasure from them, nor do i deride them for it. it's horses for courses. Edited December 13, 2012 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 You make it sound so simple TimR! Like many of us here I have done allsorts of stuff, spent years doing pubs and clubs with a blues rock band at the same time in an indie rock band doing weddings, functions and a few pubs etc, after 5 years of functions doing covers its been quite nice to play in an originals band again even to small (very small sometimes!) Audiences that appreciate our skills. That said I have done that for a couple of years along with some function dep gigs to keep my hand in and have just started a new function/pub covers band and will be back at it earning a few quid next year once my broken arm is fixed! As for bribing people with cds etc if you give 20 away that £20 per gig at cost plus a few t-shirts its going to get expensive every week, sure we could do it now at our age but we are too old for fame and fortune in this fickle world and thinking back to my teens it would of been too expensive to do. Audience reaction after your first song should be enough to tell where its going imo/e usually downhill for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I agee to a certain extent. CDs don't cost a lot. The OP was describing the situation where the audience dissapears before you've even played a note. If you want an audience you need to create a buzz. It's not simple but there are ways. What about pretty girls giving out or selling CDs and talking up the band. I mean if you've got pretty girls giving out CDs then you must be doing something right? I just think it's no good moaning that your potential audience is dissapearing before you've even played a note if you're not interacting with them from the moment they walk in the door. TBH I've seen bands who turn up, soundcheck and then hide in the back room and disappear as soon as they've finished, and I've seen bands who are at the door talking to potential fans as they come in and hanging around afterwards. Which bands get the most fans? If you're the type of band who don't want and don't care about having an audience then the first route is the way to go. BUT I'm yet to meet anyone who purposely goes out to play to an empty room. Just to be clear we are talking about a special situation "multi-band events" and you need to employ special tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1355403069' post='1897873'] Just to be clear we are talking about a special situation "multi-band events" and you need to employ special tactics. [/quote] Does photobombing every picture you can with one of your bands business cards count as a 'special tactic'? I'm sure there's a good few people gone home and looked at a photo of their mates with an A Little Bit Outlaw business card inbetween their heads Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 It is all about the bill, IMO... The best venues around here have quite a strict policy of who they have play... and they also happen to pay quite low, funniliy enough, but because they are a garuanteed draw as a venue..and the standard is known and accepted they do well whoever is on... but getting in there is the KEY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barefootbassplayer Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Some interesting points being raised, the core of my original post was more the demise of bands supporting fellow bands, I've made a point of trying to chat to fellow band mates, try and get my friends in early to listen to the other guys, I've always been the one to lend out my bass amp for others to use.....although I have had a rethink on this when recently some @rseholes have walked off with some small items of my gear and reset all of my eq settings despite asking them not to. I guess I find a lack of camaraderie these days between fellow bands which I see as a real shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1355390726' post='1897606'] If people leave before you play they don't get exposed to your music and you lose potential new fans. My take on this would be to give out flyers before you play that can be exchanged for goodies (CDs, etc) after you have played. If they leave after your first song, then they don't like you and wouldn't want a CD and you've not lost anything. You then get a strong message if people start leaving during your set or don't pick up a CD after you play. [/quote] I was talking especifically about other bands, not about the people they brought, just the band members themselves. A band is typically what, 3-5 people? so, to me, it does not matter whether they stay or not. I mean, stay if you like what we do, and we will appreciate it, but don't stay because you feel you *need* to support a *fellow musician*. 3-5 people should not impact significantly teh size of the audience. If it does... then there is a problem, but you should not aim to make up the audience numbers simply from other band's members. Of course I agree that the multiband gig has the potential to expose other band's fans to your music. And that is good. It only works when you plan it well, get bands that they are compatible in styles... If one band is some kind of thrash metal and another is synth pop (I have seen that once in Glasgow)... you are unlikely to get much from other band's fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1355403069' post='1897873'] I agee to a certain extent. CDs don't cost a lot. The OP was describing the situation where the audience dissapears before you've even played a note. If you want an audience you need to create a buzz. It's not simple but there are ways. What about pretty girls giving out or selling CDs and talking up the band. I mean if you've got pretty girls giving out CDs then you must be doing something right? I just think it's no good moaning that your potential audience is dissapearing before you've even played a note if you're not interacting with them from the moment they walk in the door. TBH I've seen bands who turn up, soundcheck and then hide in the back room and disappear as soon as they've finished, and I've seen bands who are at the door talking to potential fans as they come in and hanging around afterwards. Which bands get the most fans? If you're the type of band who don't want and don't care about having an audience then the first route is the way to go. BUT I'm yet to meet anyone who purposely goes out to play to an empty room. Just to be clear we are talking about a special situation "multi-band events" and you need to employ special tactics. [/quote] I think the OP was talking about the *members of other bands* in the bill leaving, and he was annoyed by that. At least that's what my responses were based on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='Barefootbassplayer' timestamp='1355407297' post='1897991'] Some interesting points being raised, the core of my original post was more the demise of bands supporting fellow bands, I've made a point of trying to chat to fellow band mates, try and get my friends in early to listen to the other guys, I've always been the one to lend out my bass amp for others to use.....although I have had a rethink on this when recently some @rseholes have walked off with some small items of my gear and reset all of my eq settings despite asking them not to. I guess I find a lack of camaraderie these days between fellow bands which I see as a real shame [/quote] Gear sharing is always a tricky one, and a separate issue thats been covered many times here. But those attitudes don't help, I make a matter of not sharing any gear and tidying away all loose items just in case, I have said to other bass players that I don't amp share and explain why. They are always understanding and it more often than not results in a chat about gear, moving swiftly to our bands. I do know what you mean about other bands not chatting, I like to try and chat to at least one of the members of the bands I like. We recently did an acoustic night and the support band were Pan and The Dukes from Hartlepool, about 40 miles give or take from us. I had a quick listen to them online and they sounded ok, but live they were great! I got chatting to them and told them it was really refreshing to see a young band (they were about 16/17!) not doing songs by coldplay, kings of leon and such and it was good to see a young band who knew what they were doing on their instruments. We will be having them to one of our gigs again. As for "not doing empty room gigs", how do you know until you turn up? You don't surely. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I think some 'promoters want a bill and their entourage to stay the duration and it is ALL about numbers or perceived numbers. It doesn't matter who puts the money behind the bar as long as there are people that do do so... They would have as many bands on the bill as would fit... as it cuts down the amount of people they have to attract by other means. These sort of 'gigs' are a crock... IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1355423051' post='1898329'] I think some 'promoters want a bill and their entourage to stay the duration and it is ALL about numbers or perceived numbers. It doesn't matter who puts the money behind the bar as long as there are people that do do so... They would have as many bands on the bill as would fit... as it cuts down the amount of people they have to attract by other means. These sort of 'gigs' are a crock... IMO. [/quote] what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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