This Jake Bugg kid- really the next big thing?

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='andyjingram' timestamp='1355485261' post='1898957']
I still haven't listened to any of the promo stuff, but I'm assuming he's going for the analogue only 'vintage' sound a-la Dylan/Neil Young which has been popular in certain circles for a while.

I don't have any beef over originality or harking directly back to any sound or style. If it's done well, that is all that counts. And this brickwalled, hyper compressed, full-frequency-all-the-time production sound we have at the moment can been seen as a forward motion, a modernistic 'way of the future' development, but it is very much of our time, and it's been hanging around for more than a decade at least. It's time for a change, in as much as through the 80's records got cleaner and more 'modern', but then eventually the 90's 'dirt' sprung up in response. Eventually, once people are used to a particular aesthetic, just something different seems to be original and fresh. If he is successful more bands will want to adopt that sound and approach, so perhaps this is finally the beginning of the end for the synthetic, super-gloss sounds we have been putting up with for so long.

Why him when there are so many others that have done the same thing?

The answer always remains the same- because somewhere in his world there is someone willing to put a lot of money behind him, and pay it to the correct people. Why do we know about him? Because he's good? No, because every time we click onto a website or open another youtube video we are told about him, again and again. It is advertising, pure and simple. I know who we are talking about, and yet I haven't even heard his music yet!

Advertising works, particularly when combined with what amounts to the peer pressure of radio and TV exposure- hearing your favourite presenter fauning over a track, and seeing everyone on a show behave as if the band is the next big thing has a big effect on the listening public. We as musos listen to and make decisions about music a little differently- were are too close to it, but for the casual listener if he's on Radio One, and The Graham Norton Show, and in the ad breaks, and in thier favourite magazine, and ten foot high in every tube station they walk through, that is a pretty powerful indication (or pressure to believe) that he [i]must[/i] be great. It's been happening since people started selling records.

*EDIT* Three posts came in while while I was typing so; Sorry I've repeated some of them here!
[/quote]

Advertising is indeed powerful, i agree, of course all this is down to advertising, and a confirmation of how well it works, because i forget why i even started listening to him this morning? feckin advertising, it's like a bloody silent assassin. Stalks you a bit, makes the kill, then buggers off without a trace.

Peer pressure- Not the case for me. I have more or less been cut off from my peers and public life for a few months now. I don't have a TV since the digital switchover, and i don't listen to the radio that often anymore.

[Toasted]

[quote name='Stan_da_man' timestamp='1355485481' post='1898962']
I'll say what I say when someone asks me about any new artist and my opinion of them etc.

SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO FUGAZI.

Thank you.
[/quote]

Haha. I love you Stan.

An aside:

When ever anyone asks me "who is your favourite band" or some such other inane musical rubbish I always answer "Fugazi" as it always stops the conversation.

Joe.

[Wil]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1355488051' post='1899021']
IMO Mumford and Sons are hardly any more new or original than Jake Bugg, and the others have all been around for at least 20 or so years.
[/quote]

I have to agree! I quite enjoyed this review of their latest, though, from Melody Maker's Mr Agreeable:

[url="http://thequietus.com/articles/10744-mumford-sons-babel-review-mr-agreeable"]http://thequietus.com/articles/10744-mumford-sons-babel-review-mr-agreeable[/url]

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1355488051' post='1899021']
IMO Mumford and Sons are hardly any more new or original than Jake Bugg, and the others have all been around for at least 20 or so years.
[/quote]

Maybe so, but the thing with RHCP, RATM and John Frusciante is that they weren't just propelled into stardom and adored by waves of fangirls over night despite their music clearly being nothing more than the regurgitated songs of an artist that is still alive!

I like other folk music along with Mumford and sons, they just happen to be the most popular right now.

[Toasted]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1355488364' post='1899029']Maybe so, but the thing with RHCP, RATM and John Frusciante is that they weren't just propelled into stardom and adored by waves of fangirls over night despite their music clearly being nothing more than the regurgitated songs of an artist that is still alive![/quote]

Er...

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1355488127' post='1899022']
Who has?
[/quote]

Taken out of context. The point was that he hasn't done anything that Bob Dylan hasn't already done, and that bucketloads of people have been doing since Bob Dylans heyday, yet he has the spotlight thrown on him.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1355488459' post='1899033']
Er...
[/quote]

Are you actually going to contribute to the discussion, or just write things like this?

[Toasted]

Hey, there's only room for one Mr Aggro 'round here and that's me. Or maybe it's Uncle Psychosis. I've not decided.

1) Of course, you're right, how silly of me: RHCP (EMI since '84) and RATM (Sony since '90) were catapulted to international stardom by nothing but than pure musical, fresh and exciting talent (millions of advertising dollars).

2)[list]
[*]And, it's not a quote "out of context" - it's there in the OP your criticism of Jake Bugg (whoever he is) was that he's done nothing fresh or new and therefore his popularity isn't fair compared to the impoverished minnows of pop music you like.
[*]You're bashing him for being derivative and you like RHCP. Nurse! Cognitive Dissonance in General Discussion!
[/list]

Edited December 14, 2012 by Toasted

[xilddx]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1355488364' post='1899029']
Maybe so, but the thing with RHCP, RATM and John Frusciante is that they weren't just propelled into stardom and adored by waves of fangirls over night despite their music clearly being nothing more than the regurgitated songs of an artist that is still alive!

I like other folk music along with Mumford and sons, they just happen to be the most popular right now.
[/quote]

This is all just a rant really isn't it. People moaning about a musician's lack of originality and their success, the state of the music industry etc, when really the only difference between this and their own listening is the name of the bands. People buy music they like, it's all available, so go and buy what you like. Jake Bugg don't mean sh*t, just because he was on Jools and now getting his name and face around with a good marketing budget just shows most people need feeding, passionate music lovers go and find their music themselves.

M&S aren't folk music mate, they're Woolly Tank Top Pop.

[charic]

At the end of the day... if it sells, it sells for a reason. We may or may not like it but there's sod all reason worrying about it.

If you could be in his position right now are you telling me you'd turn it down?

FWIW, some basschatters (and a few others) have described my band as similar to a number of other bands. I take it as a compliment personally!

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1355488934' post='1899048']
[list]
[*]You're bashing him for being derivative and you like RHCP. Nurse! Cognitive Dissonance in General Discussion!
[/list]
[/quote]

Ok, so explain where my "Cognitive dissonance" comes from?

I wasn't bashing him AT ALL for being derivative, i was saying that plenty of people have done this, and have been doing it, and are still doing exactly what this kid does, and what Bob Dylan did. But yet, he has gotten the attention of the record labels and the general public, why?

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1355489042' post='1899049']
M&S aren't folk music mate, they're Woolly Tank Top Pop.
[/quote]

Haha

[charic]

Right time, right place, right contacts

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Wil' timestamp='1355488292' post='1899027']
I have to agree! I quite enjoyed this review of their latest, though, from Melody Maker's Mr Agreeable:

[url="http://thequietus.com/articles/10744-mumford-sons-babel-review-mr-agreeable"]http://thequietus.co...ew-mr-agreeable[/url]
[/quote]

There were too many asterisks to read it properly.

I actually found it a bit insulting.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1355489669' post='1899073']
Right time, right place, right contacts
[/quote]

This is probably the best explanation so far on this thread, and it really was only 4 words.

[Toasted]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1355489616' post='1899068']
Ok, so explain where my "Cognitive dissonance" comes from?

I wasn't bashing him AT ALL for being derivative, i was saying that plenty of people have done this, and have been doing it, and are still doing exactly what this kid does, and what Bob Dylan did. But yet, he has gotten the attention of the record labels and the general public, why?
[/quote]

Yes you were - you said he didn't do anything new or fresh and because he was popular that was unfair.

That conflicts with the idea that RHCP should escape the same criticism.

EDIT: you're the gift that keeps on giving, interests: "Derren Brown"

Edited December 14, 2012 by Toasted

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1355490055' post='1899083']
Yes you were - you said he didn't do anything new or fresh and because he was popular that was unfair.

That conflicts with the idea that RHCP should escape the same criticism.

EDIT: you're the gift that keeps on giving, interests: "Derren Brown"
[/quote]

I don't see what my personally interest in entertainment and culture has to do with a discussion on jake bugg.

Also in my list of interests is making people smile, cooking, music and cars, for anybody that hasn't glanced across there. Anybody want to make another hit at my personal interests?

Edited December 14, 2012 by MiltyG565

[Wil]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1355489042' post='1899049']
Woolly Tank Top Pop.
[/quote]

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='mcgraham' timestamp='1355486361' post='1898985']
I don't think the public are stupid.
[/quote]
As a member of the public I strongly disagree with that remark!

[Toasted]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1355490223' post='1899085']Also in my list of interests is making people smile, cooking, music and cars, for anybody that hasn't glanced across there. Anybody want to make another hit at my personal interests?[/quote]

Sorry I wasn't clear: Derren Brown, a man who makes his living re-enacting psychological / "magical" experiments.... like Jake Bugg makes a living plagiarising Bob Dylan. Do you see where I'm going with this?

It's totally admirable that you like making people smile. It's a failing that I mainly like making me smile.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Toasted

[mcgraham]

[quote name='andyjingram' timestamp='1355487991' post='1899020']
Well, coercion implies force or threats, so no. But there is a very heavy influence being laid in place which 'the public' (which doesn't really exist as an entity) has shown itself to be very responsive to. Simon Cowell doesn't even pretend that his career isn't built on that fact.

Of course, 'the public' is a term for a collection of individuals each of whom have their own tastes and decision making apparatus, and it would be an insult to say that everyone who buys a heavily marketted product is just responding to direct instruction due to stupidity. I'm assuming Jake Bugg is very good at what he does, and his record will make a very satisfying purchase for a lot of people. But the fact remains that an 18 year old with whatever backing Jake Bugg has will gain considerably more fans (and threads about him on forums) than an equally talented 18 year old without any 'connections' or benefactors.
[/quote]

I agree with most of your points, am not certain on others, but the nature of your points seem to indicate (IMO) you're not quite hearing what I'm saying.

I don't dispute that better connections will help gain more fans, more funding can help gain better visibility, but the bottom line (in any industry) is to sell, which means you need to make your product as attractive enough to sell to your target market, and you need to make the target market/right people aware of your product. Having something to sell isn't enough, having someone to buy isn't enough, you need the person to buy to be aware of your product. This might make it slower going for some without big financial backing to get visibility, or those without the know-how/awareness to tailor what they're doing to their target market, that's the nature of any business.

[mcgraham]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1355490223' post='1899085']
I don't see what my personally interest in entertainment and culture has to do with a discussion on jake bugg.

Also in my list of interests is making people smile, cooking, music and cars, for anybody that hasn't glanced across there. Anybody want to make another hit at my personal interests?
[/quote]
[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1355490055' post='1899083']
Yes you were - you said he didn't do anything new or fresh and because he was popular that was unfair.

That conflicts with the idea that RHCP should escape the same criticism.

EDIT: you're the gift that keeps on giving, interests: "Derren Brown"
[/quote]

Both of you, take it easy.

[xilddx]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1355490568' post='1899092']
As a member of the public I strongly disagree with that remark!
[/quote]



The average consumer of pop music can be very lazy though, only really buying or downloading what they see and hear on the TV and Radio.

[charic]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1355490223' post='1899085']
I don't see what my personally interest in entertainment and culture has to do with a discussion on jake bugg.

Also in my list of interests is making people smile, cooking, music and cars, for anybody that hasn't glanced across there. Anybody want to make another hit at my personal interests?
[/quote]

Does this mean your ideal activity is : cooking Derren Browns smile in a car while listening to music?

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 16, 2022 by Jus Lukin