Stingray 2EQ vs 3EQ - why the big price difference?

[BassYerbouti]

Hi guys,

I have fancied a Stingray for some time and now might be in position to buy. I am not an afficianado, just love the tone and neck on a couple of 3EQ's I played a while back. So a quick trawl on the usual suspect web sites, reveals a £400 difference between the 2EQ and 3EQ at the moment. Can someone tell me if they are exactly the same guitar (materials, build quality, same factory etc.) apart from the electronics or are there other differences that make one much cheaper/considerations when choosing?

regards,

Bassyerbouti

[stingrayPete1977]

If you are referring to the 133 series then they are 2 band (which I prefer anyway) but they [u]dont have a hard case [/u]and come in for £1000 sometimes with a limited range of colours. There is some extra work involved in a 3 band as the body has to be drilled for the jack socket because its not on the control plate anymore but thats not a massive deal.

I would go for a 2 band everytime myself

[stingrayPete1977]

Everything else is the same and the colours are not only available on the 133 so once you leave the shop it makes no difference at all (other than the case)

[BassYerbouti]

Thanks for that advice. I haven't tried a 2EQ so I guess I need to hear them side by side. One of the reasons I am wanting one is that I am having no joy playing slap bass with my Fender precision and have formed the impression from research and experience with my old Yamaha RBX that it will be easier with an active bass. In terms of the 2EQ vs 3EQ debate, does either make playing slap easier?

[stingrayPete1977]

I dont think so and although either version will give you that sizzle on the top end and the thump on the bottom people claim a P bass can do but can't I am not sure it will make slap that much easier for you to be honest, practice practice practice. That said sometimes a new found love and the tone you are after can inspire you to practice so there is some value to it

Loads of slap records have been done on Jazz basses, P basses and 2 or 3 EQ Stingrays over the years

Edited December 19, 2012 by stingrayPete1977

[Dingus]

Some folks think that , because of the interactive nature of the frequency controls on the active eq that the basic sound of the two band Stingray is slightly different , but it's a subtle difference at best . Obviously , the three band lets you have more control over tyhe mids which can come in handy , but the pre-EBMM Stingrays were all two band eq and people managed fine with them , so either will be o.k . Just a quick point about playing slap on a Precision ; a P bass can sound great for slap , but the low-mid emphasis chunky 1970s style tone tone is not to everybodies taste maybe . I have grown to love it and slap on my own Precision , but have found that the right strings and setup really important in getting the best sound and feel for slapping on this type of bass .

Edited December 19, 2012 by Dingus

[stingrayPete1977]

If your after the Bernard Edwards tone I have never heard a 3 EQ get close and really only the pre EB rays gets it nailed
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KUL9-eNXzQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KUL9-eNXzQ[/url]

Same as the master Louis got to be a 2 EQ IMO
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK5IFyo0k0Q"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK5IFyo0k0Q[/url]
Your never going to get a passive P bass to sound like that (some will say good but you get my point about the top end)

[stingrayPete1977]

Forget the bass anyway its all about the hat
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAPF-9Tjp-M"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAPF-9Tjp-M[/url]

[Dingus]

Its worth pointing out , a new EBMM Stingray isn't goint to sound exactly like Louis Johnson's bass in that clip . His basses were specially tweaked by Leo Fender to have a super-powerful slap sound , and even Louis doesn't know what Leo did to them . This fellow is arguably king of the slap tone on a Precision Bass :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5QYSu9xaTE

Edited December 19, 2012 by Dingus

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1355930077' post='1904618']
Its worth pointing out , a new EBMM Stingray isn't goint to sound exactly like Louis Johnson's bass in that clip . His basses were specially tweaked by Leo Fender to have a super-powerful slap sound , and even Louis doesn't know what Leo did to them .
[/quote]
I dont think that much TBH really do you? super strong magnets and all that I think is probably a load of shiz I think there would be loads more reason why people dont sound like Louis Johson before that will concern anyone

Also they were pre EB Rays so all the pre EB factors would get you closer than an EBMM 2 band.

Edited December 19, 2012 by stingrayPete1977

[Dingus]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355930330' post='1904623']
I dont think that much TBH really do you? super strong magnets and all that I think is probably a load of shiz I think there would be loads more reason why people dont sound like Louis Johson before that will concern anyone

Also they were pre EB Rays so all the pre EB factors would get you closer than an EBMM 2 band.
[/quote]

You are quite right Pete , but I personally find the EBMM Stingrays to be quite a bit more zingy -sounding than an old pre- EBMM Ray .

[risingson]

Also, it's Louis Johnson playing it, actually more like hammering it.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1355930842' post='1904637']
You are quite right Pete , but I personally find the EBMM Stingrays to be quite a bit more zingy -sounding than an old pre- EBMM Ray .
[/quote]
So do I, too zingy really and they lack the thump of a pre EB, either have more than enough top end for anything I have ever wanted to do though. Strung through pre EBs has more tension on the strings which will add a bit of something extra for the ham fisted slapper and possibly what gives them the extra thump? That said my '82 is top loaded and has more thump than any EBMM anyway.

The SR5's I find a totally different animal really for this genre at least.

Edited December 19, 2012 by stingrayPete1977

[BassYerbouti]

Oh bugger, I'm all over the place now

[Dingus]

[quote name='BassYerbouti' timestamp='1355933758' post='1904700']
Oh bugger, I'm all over the place now
[/quote]

Any Stingray will sound good -2eq , 3eq , new , old - it doesn't matter that much in the end . They will all end up sounding like a Stingray , which is no bad thing ! We are talking about the finer points more than anything else . If you can get a chance to try one or two Stingrays then that will be invaluable and 5 minutes with a bass in you hand can be worth a hundred hours reading about it . But overall , if you are looking for a bass with a great slap sound and punchy fingerstyle tone then a Stingray is up there with the very best .

Edited December 19, 2012 by Dingus

[rubis]

Why not buy a 2eq which feels right to play and with the money saved, buy a John East 3eq module with the stacked bass/treble plus mid.
Then you could swap them around at leisure, especially if you used non-soldered connections, and find the set up which suits your style, amp, gigging situation etc

Edited December 19, 2012 by rubis

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1355934642' post='1904722']
Any Stingray will sound good -2eq , 3eq , new , old - it doesn't matter that much in the end . They will all end up sounding like a Stingray , which is no bad thing ! We are talking about the finer points more than anything else . If you can get a chance to try one or two Stingrays then that will be invaluable and 5 minutes with a bass in you hand can be worth a hundred hours reading about it . But overall , if you are looking for a bass with a great slap sound and punchy fingerstyle tone then a Stingray is up there with the very best .
[/quote]
I agree

[mcnach]

[quote name='rubis' timestamp='1355934869' post='1904727']
Why not buy a 2eq which feels right to play and with the money saved, buy a John East 3eq module with the stacked bass/treble plus mid.
Then you could swap them around at leisure, especially if you used non-soldered connections, and find the set up which suits your style, amp, gigging situation etc
[/quote]

This.

If you try and like the 2EQ, buy it and save yourself a few £.
If one day you feel you could do with a more mid-heavy sound, I'd do one of these:

1) carefully rewire the pickup with the coils in series rather than in parallel. It's a mighty sound. I personally prefer this for the 2EQ.

2) get a John East 3-band, which gives you essentially a 2EQ plus a midsweep module... Then you really have a lot of control over the mids.

I have a 2003 MM SUB 2EQ (option 1 above) and a 2002 MM Stingray 2EQ with a John East preamp. The SUB is my favourite of the two.

Which brings me to... the old USA MM SUB basses... They were only made between 2003-2006, and they may not be the prettiest... but they're amazing basses for little money (£3-400). My SUB is my #1 bass, that's all I'll say.

[drTStingray]

THere's some good advice in this thread - however here's my take on it. I owned a pre EB Ray from about 1980 onwards, and currently only have Ernie Ball basses.

The 3 EQ can sound almost identical to a 2 band EQ bass - the key difference is that the mid range knob, at centre detent, give the bass more mid range than a 2 EQ has with the bass and treble boosted about 80% (which seems to be the way many people play them). They can sound exactly like Bernard Edwards (but of course you need to be able to play in his style, which is very specific).

The mid range control can help you out in some mixes, particularly if you don't want to play too hard - so basically the 3 EQ has a little more versatility.

The 2 band has more bass and treble boost (IMO), however when dimed, you do lose mid range in the sound - the mid range comes back as you back off the tone controls.

The Ray 133 is 2 band NOS in specific colours (red, white or blue??), without hard shell case. You may well find 3EQ basses around as NOS which are discounted - in fact I know of a shop with a 3EQ HS pick up model in natural with a maple board which I was offered a discount from the already discounted price - PM me if you want to know where it is.

You should find the Stingray in either 2 or 3 EQ form a natural slap machine (amongst other attributes) - mine still bring a smile to my face a full 32 years after the first time I played a slap pattern in a gig with one - it is an awesome sound.

Best of luck with getting one. You may wish to consider buying used - plenty of mint or near 3 EQ basses come on the market (Ebay for example) and 2 EQ ones.

[Hutton]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1355961412' post='1905185']
This.

If you try and like the 2EQ, buy it and save yourself a few £.
If one day you feel you could do with a more mid-heavy sound, I'd do one of these:

1) carefully rewire the pickup with the coils in series rather than in parallel. It's a mighty sound. I personally prefer this for the 2EQ.

2) get a John East 3-band, which gives you essentially a 2EQ plus a midsweep module... Then you really have a lot of control over the mids.

I have a 2003 MM SUB 2EQ (option 1 above) and a 2002 MM Stingray 2EQ with a John East preamp. The SUB is my favourite of the two.

Which brings me to... the old USA MM SUB basses... They were only made between 2003-2006, and they may not be the prettiest... but they're amazing basses for little money (£3-400). My SUB is my #1 bass, that's all I'll say.
[/quote]

Agree entirely with this. I've had a couple of 2EQ Rays and a 2004 USA SUB. The SUB is with me for good. The other Rays have long since gone. The only Ray that would interest me now is a pre-eb but they're just too expensive!

Edited December 20, 2012 by Hutton

[LukeFRC]

Ahhh, if its just for slap, I know where you are coming from, you can slap quite well on a p bass- but like you I found it hard to learn slap on. Its harder to tell by sound when the technique is right. Jazz or ray will do you

[Musicman20]

As noted, the 133 series come without a proper hardcase, which is about £100 ish to buy. Also, they are in limited colours. I don't 'do' black basses or guitars so that rules that out for me, and the blue and red aren't my favourite.

They are the same as buying a 3 EQ Ray.

If you buy a 3EQ Ray, the upcharge for the extra mid control is about £60-70.

2EQs sound great, no doubt about it. There is some argument that the bass is set to a better, more controllable level on the 3EQ, (the low end on the 2EQ, if cranked, eats a lot of amp power and puts your cab through its paces!) but the tone is virtually the same.

I used to love a scooped EQ, but now I must have my mids, and the mid control is perfect for that.

Don't rule out the double pup Stingrays; the bridge pickup sounds identical!

[4 Strings]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1355963887' post='1905206']
The mid range control can help you out in some mixes, particularly if you don't want to play too hard - so basically the 3 EQ has a little more versatility.

The 2 band has more bass and treble boost (IMO), however when dimed, you do lose mid range in the sound - the mid range comes back as you back off the tone controls.
[/quote]

This is about my experience too. I have a '79 Pre-EB 'Ray and a 3 EQ EBMM Stingray. Both are fab basses. Both have a slap 'switch' in that just whack up the treble control and slap away to an inspiring sound.

I would say the Pre-EB has more depth available and also higher frequency but I find the mid control on the 3EQ bass very useful for getting rid of a bit of boom and boosting your place in the mix. Has quite a swing on it, too much of a tweak and you'll need to turn the volume down a bit. Bass up 100% on both all the time.

The 3EQ is not the 2EQ with an additional mid control, the voicing is definitely different, but as has been mentioned, both sound like Stingrays.

Be sure to buy one though, you will be disappointed with neither.

[stingrayPete1977]

Musicman20 is a bit shy with his bass control I too run bass flat out on all four of my rays

Edited December 21, 2012 by stingrayPete1977

[Dingus]

I am constantly surprised by how much a lot of folks boost the eq on Music Man basses . I think the best approach is to set them flat , or halfway on pre EBMM / 2 band eqs , and then cut or boost sparingly from there to make moderate adjustments to fine -tune the tone . But that's just me , conservative by nature .