Lighting up a band....ideas and advice please!

[paulbass]

Hi peeps i play in two bands and both are completely different,ones a rock band and the other a function band. The function band plays a lot of clubs etc and most of the time there are lights already provided but in the rock band i play in plays mainly pub gigs and we are looking for some ideas on how to create a bit of presence with lighting. We do have 4 mega par cans that throw out some serious light and also two LX5's that give off pretty patterns,a bit basic but they are cheap and cheerful and bright.We also have a smoke machine. The lights we do have are all led.
We havent got stands as of yet and wondered if they would be better on stands or on the floor,at the front of the stage or behind us or to the side maybe?
If any of you guys got any pics or youtube footage that you could show me for some inspiration or any advice that would help i would appriecate it. Thanks for reading

[warwickhunt]

i-color lights are pretty inexpensive (deals can be had with stands and the controller) and they are very easily transported. They do a good job for pubs where you need a colour wash (they are sound to light or timed chase, so no need to have it too static). The i-color 3 is probably as good as you need the extra band of colour added by the '4' isn't probably worth the extra expense and size.

[skidder652003]

morning.
we use something like this which is a little different, i've not seen a band on our circuit use one (yet!)
http://www.soundbasemegastore.com/lighting/27912-scanic-oil-projector-120.html
we use stands with our LED's, off to the side, or sometimes behind us, sometimes we may have them in front pointing up but it all depends on how much space we have (the biggest problem playing in pubs IMO)
My biggest tip however would be to AVOID any sound to light pattern on your lights! This will make you look like a cheesy school disco! We use a slow fade in/out pattern so the colour changes slowly every 30 seconds or so. I also may have one static colour for a particlar song if the mood takes me. I control all this via an MXR foot controller (as well as the PA and playing bass and backing vocals!)

[paulbass]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1356168865' post='1907520']
i-color lights are pretty inexpensive (deals can be had with stands and the controller) and they are very easily transported. They do a good job for pubs where you need a colour wash (they are sound to light or timed chase, so no need to have it too static). The i-color 3 is probably as good as you need the extra band of colour added by the '4' isn't probably worth the extra expense and size.
[/quote]
I have got 2 icolor 3 wash lights but the bulbs didnt last long and the needed their own socket as the were so powerful.They are awesome for a wash effect. I dont know where to get bulbs from for these lights now,they seem to be discontinuing these now. Thanks for the reply

[paulbass]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1356169373' post='1907526']
morning.
we use something like this which is a little different, i've not seen a band on our circuit use one (yet!)
[url="http://www.soundbasemegastore.com/lighting/27912-scanic-oil-projector-120.html"]http://www.soundbase...jector-120.html[/url]
we use stands with our LED's, off to the side, or sometimes behind us, sometimes we may have them in front pointing up but it all depends on how much space we have (the biggest problem playing in pubs IMO)
My biggest tip however would be to AVOID any sound to light pattern on your lights! This will make you look like a cheesy school disco! We use a slow fade in/out pattern so the colour changes slowly every 30 seconds or so. I also may have one static colour for a particlar song if the mood takes me. I control all this via an MXR foot controller (as well as the PA and playing bass and backing vocals!)
[/quote]
I havent seen these types of lights but they look good for the price. Why is it always left to the bass player to do the lights?! thanks for the advice

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='paulbass' timestamp='1356170180' post='1907534']
I have got 2 icolor 3 wash lights but the bulbs didnt last long and the needed their own socket as the were so powerful.They are awesome for a wash effect. I dont know where to get bulbs from for these lights now,they seem to be discontinuing these now. Thanks for the reply
[/quote]

I know what you mean about the current draw though we regularly play pubs where the whole band, PA and lights have to run off a single double socket under the dartboard (you know the type) and we've not had a problem. We've popped a couple of bulbs (luckily the lights continue working so not a big deal) but have sourced replacements easy enough. I'm not saying the i-colors are fantastic/the DB's but for a band wanting a cheapish, compact wash of colour they are fine... obviously didn't realise you were aiming higher than that.

[paulbass]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1356170536' post='1907542']
I know what you mean about the current draw though we regularly play pubs where the whole band, PA and lights have to run off a single double socket under the dartboard (you know the type) and we've not had a problem. We've popped a couple of bulbs (luckily the lights continue working so not a big deal) but have sourced replacements easy enough. I'm not saying the i-colors are fantastic/the DB's but for a band wanting a cheapish, compact wash of colour they are fine... obviously didn't realise you were aiming higher than that.
[/quote]
To be honest i think they are a great wash light and are value for money.The problem i had at one gig we melted a socket(dodgy pub with dodgy wiring!) during a gig and i was advised to use led as they dont use much power.As the bulbs started to go over time i got some American dj mega par cans at £40 each and they really are good value.I would still use my icolor lights if i could get some bulbs.I keep them in a shed which doesnt help as the cold weakens the bulbs....bugger!

[mrtcat]

We've got 4 of these.

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_led_bar_252_rgb.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_led_bar_252_rgb.htm[/url]

Super cheap, can all be linked to run in sync. I built a simple case for each one where we just put them where we want them, take the lid off and plug them in. They're very bright and work brilliantly with a smoke machine.

[JohnFitzgerald]

IColour 4 here x two.

Previously did the par cans route, but it was all lots of carrying and setting up.

I'm sure we draw more than the 13 amps that we're often provided via a single socket.

Just checked, our Crown XLS602 amps each draw 6.5 amps apparently, which is convenient into a 13 amp socket.
It just so happens though that everything else is often into that same circuit.

How on earth the lights stay on, I don't know.

[whizzzy]

I've not used the i-color 3 wash lights personally (I've used NJD Spectres which are quite similar) but I think that you may still be better off perservering with those rather than spending money on low cost LED lighting.

From a quick bit of research on Google it looks like the i-colour 3 uses 3 x 500W K1 lamps and if all lamps are full on this means that you will be drawing about 6.5 amps in power. Double that it you have a pair and you are up to 13 amps and so if you are connecting these to one power socket (plus any amps and other kit which may be plugged in) then no wonder the plug / socket is getting warm!!

It looks like the i-color 4 however is fitted with 3 x 300W lamps and so this brings the power down to about 4 amps per unit (or 8 amps if you are running a pair) and so this gives you a little more reserve if everything is running full tilt plus other kit which may be connected.

From looking around it seems that a K9 lamp is available in 300W form so it could be worth investigating if you can downrate the 500W lamps you have in the units down to 300W. There will be a slight noticable difference if you A - B them but nothing to worry about. There are plenty of suppliers on the web so Google is your friend.

Another tip when using any sort of lamp as destinct from LED lights is to give them 10 - 15 mins or so to cool down before moving them, also don't put them on top of speaker cabs as excessive vibration will shorten the lamp life when they are hot. Also when bringing them into a warm / humid room leave them for 20 - 30 mins if possible to come up to room temperature before switching them on. In other words lighting is the last kit to set up and the last kit to pack away. Simple precautions like this can extend the lamp life considerably.

When positioning lights on stage they need to be in front of the band, putting them behind the band puts most of you in the shade and so loose the impact of the lighting. Try and get them up on stands as well as the coverage and effect will be greater however this is not always possible if you've tucked away in the corner of the local pub! If the venue has a low ceiling and is white or a light colour then one effective solution is to bounce the light off the ceiling into the stage area.

LED lighting has its place but unless you spending serious money on the fittings then you get what you pay for IMHO and low cost fittings become cheesy 'disco-dave' eye candy rather then serving the useful function of lighting up the band.

"Why is it always left to the bass player to do the lights?!" - dunno - but I've often tried to work that one out as well

[bertbass]

We use a pair of these, http://prolight.co.uk/DJ/item.php?id=509435&PHPSESSID=69e3ef756ddad91c2d8aa9bd9858be76 which come with a foot controller. As we've got a guy who does the lights, we've also got one of these, http://www.thomann.de/gb/botex_dc2448_light_operator.htm. Seriously good, easy to set up, take down and carry, uses little space on stage and not hot or power hungry.

[skidder652003]

i think for small pubs, LED's are great as they don't fry you or draw much juice. Most of the places we play are pretty cramped (and theres only 3 of us!)

[Truckstop]

Get the lights as high as possible and pointing downwards on you. Having coloured lights pointing up at you will only serve to make you look like a bunch of ghosts in heavy shadow and is tiresome to watch.

If you havent got stands or otherwise can't elevate the lights, White light looks fine from any angle and works great with hazers/smoke machines. White light makes everything look shiny, and provided it's not too bright makes it easier for the crowd to see what's going on.

I'm a massive fan of White light/warm white light. Always looks classy and if you can rig 4 par cans to fade in and out out of sync with each other is a really good way to light up a band without it looking cheap.

Truckstop

Edited December 22, 2012 by Truckstop

[gapiro]

One of the bands I run sound for just have 2 sets of these.
http://www.dv247.com/dj-equipment/equinox-eqled62-maxi-bar-system--78045

Easy peasy

[dmccombe7]

I use a combination of PAR LED's from Thomann, KAM and Showtec some sourced from ebay and others direct from Thomann at £30 each aint bad. Total of 12 set up 4 each side on stands and 4 on back goalpost stand with each musician having a dedicated spot. Overkill for most gigs except larger stage venues.
On the goalpost i have laser, 2 projectors, scanner and 4 PARS. On the floor i have 2 projectors facing forward from each corner of the drums. Stands are from Maplins at £39 each.
Lighting desk is a Showtec 24 cost around £140 but you can pick them up lot cheaper now.
Most can be set up sound to light but helps if one of your mates can operate.

[attachment=125739:564095_10151938656000082_2012560764_n.jpg]

Hope this helps. Remember to start with the minimum and work your way up to what you feel makes a great light show.
Other suggestions for effect are white pin spots which cut thru smoke like lasers.
Also make sure you do a lighting check for angles and that spots are hitting where they should.

It does become a tad addictive as i now have a garage full of them.

Dave

Edited December 23, 2012 by dmccombe7

[paulbass]

[quote name='whizzzy' timestamp='1356181062' post='1907677']
I've not used the i-color 3 wash lights personally (I've used NJD Spectres which are quite similar) but I think that you may still be better off perservering with those rather than spending money on low cost LED lighting.

From a quick bit of research on Google it looks like the i-colour 3 uses 3 x 500W K1 lamps and if all lamps are full on this means that you will be drawing about 6.5 amps in power. Double that it you have a pair and you are up to 13 amps and so if you are connecting these to one power socket (plus any amps and other kit which may be plugged in) then no wonder the plug / socket is getting warm!!

It looks like the i-color 4 however is fitted with 3 x 300W lamps and so this brings the power down to about 4 amps per unit (or 8 amps if you are running a pair) and so this gives you a little more reserve if everything is running full tilt plus other kit which may be connected.

From looking around it seems that a K9 lamp is available in 300W form so it could be worth investigating if you can downrate the 500W lamps you have in the units down to 300W. There will be a slight noticable difference if you A - B them but nothing to worry about. There are plenty of suppliers on the web so Google is your friend.

Another tip when using any sort of lamp as destinct from LED lights is to give them 10 - 15 mins or so to cool down before moving them, also don't put them on top of speaker cabs as excessive vibration will shorten the lamp life when they are hot. Also when bringing them into a warm / humid room leave them for 20 - 30 mins if possible to come up to room temperature before switching them on. In other words lighting is the last kit to set up and the last kit to pack away. Simple precautions like this can extend the lamp life considerably.

When positioning lights on stage they need to be in front of the band, putting them behind the band puts most of you in the shade and so loose the impact of the lighting. Try and get them up on stands as well as the coverage and effect will be greater however this is not always possible if you've tucked away in the corner of the local pub! If the venue has a low ceiling and is white or a light colour then one effective solution is to bounce the light off the ceiling into the stage area.

LED lighting has its place but unless you spending serious money on the fittings then you get what you pay for IMHO and low cost fittings become cheesy 'disco-dave' eye candy rather then serving the useful function of lighting up the band.

"Why is it always left to the bass player to do the lights?!" - dunno - but I've often tried to work that one out as well
[/quote]
Thanks for this advice,i never thought of bouncing light from ceilings in small pubs.This could prove a useful tip thanks!...btw the icolor units i have used 3 800watt bulbs in each unit....serious lighting lol! i was going to downgrade them to 500 watt bulbs but i'm having difficulty finding some

[paulbass]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1356250053' post='1908304']
I use a combination of PAR LED's from Thomann, KAM and Showtec some sourced from ebay and others direct from Thomann at £30 each aint bad. Total of 12 set up 4 each side on stands and 4 on back goalpost stand with each musician having a dedicated spot. Overkill for most gigs except larger stage venues.
On the goalpost i have laser, 2 projectors, scanner and 4 PARS. On the floor i have 2 projectors facing forward from each corner of the drums. Stands are from Maplins at £39 each.
Lighting desk is a Showtec 24 cost around £140 but you can pick them up lot cheaper now.
Most can be set up sound to light but helps if one of your mates can operate.

[attachment=125739:564095_10151938656000082_2012560764_n.jpg]

Hope this helps. Remember to start with the minimum and work your way up to what you feel makes a great light show.
Other suggestions for effect are white pin spots which cut thru smoke like lasers.
Also make sure you do a lighting check for angles and that spots are hitting where they should.

It does become a tad addictive as i now have a garage full of them.

Dave
[/quote]
Thanks for these tips Dave,this is the sort of advice i'm after.I think i will get some stands as the lighting in your pic looks great!. I can relate to you about getting addicted to lighting as my shed is starting to become smaller! I am learning that it is so easy to waste money on lights if your not careful. Your tip about starting with minimum and working your way up is very useful thanks

[paulbass]

Thanks for all your tips and advice guys its appreicated. A few of you have mentioned the importance of white lighting which is something i've never thought of.....i can see myself shopping around again very soon Thanks!

[Count Bassy]

Personally I find that, for pub type gigs, the practicality and portability of LED systems makes them far preferable to traditional lamps.
[list]
[*]Light weight -for transport and erection, and allows light weight stands to be used
[*]Compact - for transport and stage space
[*]Low power consumption - everything can be run off one socket
[*]Robust - LEDs practically never fail, no cooling time required
[*]Run cool - keeps the stage and your head cool.
[/list]

and some of the newer ones give really good output.

[Gust0o]

Whilst petrol and a lighter remains my preferred way of lighting up many a band, I will second the call for LEDs. As Count Bassy notes, for the taller gent the benefits over traditional lamps and lighting are immediately obvious - no burnt heads!

[Monckyman]

LEDs

[JohnFitzgerald]

If I might add one last thought.

Pure white light as an effect is excellent if used sparingly with the audience able to see the light source. White pin spots through smoke is mega.

In general though, if you want the stage to be illuminated white, it's best achieved by mixing colours to give white.
It gives a far warmer light.

[lurksalot]

I use 2 ADJ DMX Par cans , LED very easy, low power , and run cool , again bounce of ceilings and walls to add more tones , with a funky lazer it works well , I would love a big light show ,but I reckon I haven't got the time to set the PA ,sort my own rig, massage the egos and run a full light show , especially when every room is as different for lighting as it is for sound .

[JohnFitzgerald]

Here's some lighting from 'back in the day'.

As well as 16 par cans ( 8 a side) we had these bad boys too.
Sets of pin spots, used sparingly.

The guitarist ran the colour lights and I did the whites, it was all done on a nod. We would either have all colours or all whites.
We also carried spots that we trained on any available mirror ball.
Right at the end of Comfortably Numb (of course) all lights would be killed apart from the spots on the mirror ball.
Anyone who had indulged usually appreciated that.

Don't know if I could be bothered carrying this much light nowadays.

Bear in mind, as above, there were the lights you see in the pic, plus 16 par cans, 4 spots, two moon effects, smoke machine.

Happy days.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='JohnFitzgerald' timestamp='1356476656' post='1910499']
Here's some lighting from 'back in the day'.

As well as 16 par cans ( 8 a side) we had these bad boys too.
Sets of pin spots, used sparingly.

The guitarist ran the colour lights and I did the whites, it was all done on a nod. We would either have all colours or all whites.
We also carried spots that we trained on any available mirror ball.
Right at the end of Comfortably Numb (of course) all lights would be killed apart from the spots on the mirror ball.
Anyone who had indulged usually appreciated that.

Don't know if I could be bothered carrying this much light nowadays.

Bear in mind, as above, there were the lights you see in the pic, plus 16 par cans, 4 spots, two moon effects, smoke machine.

Happy days.
[/quote]

Pink Floyd covers is where most of my inspiration and ideas came from too. I ran a row of white pin spots along the front of stage and did similar to you as a beam of white lines cutting thru the smoke. Great effect. I operated all my old lighting back in 80's myself with foot operated switches along with smoke machine. Meant i personally could control what effects were happening when i thought best rather than an untrained mate as sound engineer who would love playing with the effect lighting but lose the ambience of standard floods on there own.
Kinda miss those days in a way but new LED's running from one 13A socket is impressive. I measured current used on my full rig at one point including PARS, Laser, projectors (4off) scanner and 2 smoke machines and it only came to a max 7-8A with smoke machine heaters in the ON position rather than on standby.

In the old days you had to hot-wire into pubs 415V systems - not ideal and you wouldn't be able to do that nowadays - LOL

Dave