Playing more musically

[acidbass]

Learn the pentatonic scale in each of the different positions, and that's all you need to know!

[ngombe]

[quote name='mhuk' post='20789' date='Jun 20 2007, 02:45 PM']Style was probably the wrong word; I think I meant playing notes (however simple and whatever style) so that it sounds musical rather than just a sequence of notes. Is the word I'm looking for rhythm?

At the moment I'd like to play a few tunes or riffs that feel musical. For example, Rapper's Delight and Deeper Underground are both enjoyable to play but are also probably beyond me (to give an indication of performance); sometimes they sound/ feel good to play, other times just a bunch of notes played sequentially.[/quote]


Hi again.

I'm not even going to try to add to all the musical theory and other technical advice above, it all sounds top notch and it comes from far better sources than me.

I'm in a similar position though, albeit a couple of years down the line, and I've found a few non bass specific ideas help me. With dance music (e.g. Rappers delight / Good times) it's important to remember it's dance music - stand up and move with it. I'm not talking Justin Timberlake (as you can well imagine having met me ) but loosening up the shoulders, tapping your feet and swaying to the rhythm will help get the feel. Also listen to the song and sing / hum the bassline while tapping your left hand fingers in time. try and get the essence of the timing without worrying about all the technicalities of playing the actual line.

This way you can develop your feel along with the technique and theory above and hopefully this will avoid the "sequence of notes" effect. I think it's worked for me - I've still got a long way to go too but I've definitely taken a few steps.

Alternatively you could slip MikeyD a few quid to have a few one-on-ones - that's my plan B...

[mhuk]

I thought you were JT's English cousin?

Some very good ideas there. While I'm learning a piece I tend to sit down so what you say makes good sense (and I noticed you doing it at the Bass Bash).

I'll probabaly have to keep coming back here and reading several times before the more technical advice really makes sense but it all helps and is much appreciated.

[ShergoldSnickers]

Here's a tip that [b]might[/b] help:

It's easier to come up with great bass lines in your head than when sat at a bass and noodling away idly. Or it is for me at any rate, as my fingers easily fall into the 'patterns' trap, but my head doesn't. Soooooo, I've tried to develop the knack of firstly being able to mentally 'sing' the note I'm playing, which leads on to being able to 'sing' the note in your head first and then instantly find it on the neck. Crack this (I haven't totally yet), and at least if you think of a great bass line you'll be able to make a stab at playing it. So long as you can mentally sing the line, you can play it, or something like it.

Musicality is really elusive, but can be demonstrated with just one note, so it's not so much about cold technique as feel and emotion, something that just develops. As Crazykiwi suggests, it's all about attitude.

You can develop musicality by trying out bass lines by singing them out loud, it's easy to put the emotion into them here. Now look at what it is that you are doing to each note. Am I cutting it short? Is it louder or softer than the others? Or in my case - why are they all out of tune? Just try to transfer this to the bass. Easily said... hard to do.

[Sibob]

Everything suggested here is awesome...obviously.
Scales & Modes are the building blocks of music fundamentally, but just practicing these in a linear fashion can be boring and probably the most un-musical thing you could do!. The practice technique that kind of opened it up for me was practicing with a looper pedal after being inspired by a couple of lessons with Steve Lawson, i'd loop a couple of chords in various rhythmical patterns and this helped scale practice achieve a bit of musicality, for me at least.

The other thing is that groove is an odd one to try and teach! Its kind of like explaining hot or cold...its a feeling IMO.
Rocco Prestia once said when asked 'What is the groove' he replied
"Imagine a group of guys are walking down the street, all feeling and looking pretty cool, and one of them picks up a rock and puts it through a window......he just messed up the groove"
A bit odd, but hey, he grooves like a futhermucker, so i'm not arguing!

Good Luck!

Si

p.s.
+1 for the above post, singing is a BRILLIANT way of writing/figuring out lines!

Edited June 20, 2007 by Sibob

[guitarnbass]

[quote name='lukeward2004' post='20761' date='Jun 20 2007, 01:58 PM']If you want a good song suggestion for something funky, musical and with a good rhythm, watch this:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tu08cgOzXg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tu08cgOzXg[/url]

Andrew Levy is a master of writing musical and groovy basslines IMO - someone to study for sure.[/quote]

found that pretty boring to be honest, sounded really generic.

I guess what I would say is learn your favourite tunes and licks, cause if you're just practicing scales all the time...

Edited June 21, 2007 by guitarnbass

[Sean]

[quote name='lukeward2004' post='20797' date='Jun 20 2007, 02:56 PM']A good book aswell for improving your harmony and thus helping you to play more musically is "Fingerboard Harmony for Bass" by Gary Willis - a very good read and some excellent advice in there.[/quote]

I'd agree wholeheartedly with Luke about Gary Willis' book but would suggest a look at the walking basslines lessons on davemarks.com and also Ed Friedland's Building Walking Basslines book as a better introduction - Willis' book can prove to be a lot to take in quickly and I know a couple of people who just gave up on it.

[size=1]*I hope that doesn't sound too patronising, it wasn'tmeant to be*[/size]

[lukeward2004]

[quote name='Sean' post='21307' date='Jun 21 2007, 12:06 PM']I'd agree wholeheartedly with Luke about Gary Willis' book but would suggest a look at the walking basslines lessons on davemarks.com and also Ed Friedland's Building Walking Basslines book as a better introduction - Willis' book can prove to be a lot to take in quickly and I know a couple of people who just gave up on it.

[size=1]*I hope that doesn't sound too patronising, it wasn'tmeant to be*[/size][/quote]


You are right - I am working through the Ed Friedland "building walking basslines" book and will be moving on to the Gary Willis book thereafter, as there is a lot to take in.

Both Ed Friedland and Gary Willis are fantastic tutors, and I the Gary Willis book requires more of a preconcept of walking basslines in order to work.

[wildman]

[quote name='lukeward2004' post='21310' date='Jun 21 2007, 12:12 PM']You are right - I am working through the Ed Friedland "building walking basslines" book and will be moving on to the Gary Willis book thereafter, as there is a lot to take in.

Both Ed Friedland and Gary Willis are fantastic tutors, and I the Gary Willis book requires more of a preconcept of walking basslines in order to work.[/quote]


Agree with all thats been said above.

What worked for me was the Strong-Beat, Weak Beat concept thats a favourite of Gary Willis. Take a standard bar with four notes in it, and play it over and over, with the emphasis on beats 1 and beats 3. You can extend this to scales (you will need to play the top note twice to keep within the four beats to a bar form as you come down the scale) and all of a sudden your scales and arpeggios sound interesting.

Vary it around a bit. For example play with the emphasis on beats 2 and 4 you've got yourself a reggae groove, 1 2 and 3 and you have a skipping walk and so on.

[funkysimon]

[quote name='mhuk' post='20789' date='Jun 20 2007, 02:45 PM']At the moment I'd like to play a few tunes or riffs that feel musical. For example, Rapper's Delight and Deeper Underground are both enjoyable to play but are also probably beyond me (to give an indication of performance); sometimes they sound/ feel good to play, other times just a bunch of notes played sequentially.[/quote]

I find that this can come from timing; if you get the timing right, you can play nearly anything and it will sound like it's grooving. Something that helped me a lot is tapping the rhythm out, particularly if I'm reading a piece that's written out in standard notation. Start simply by tapping a hand on each beat along with some music that you're listening to:

[font="Courier New"]1 2 3 4
R R R R[/font]

Then add the "ands" on the other hand
[font="Courier New"]
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
R L R L R L R L [/font]

That's a quaver rhythm you're tapping. Try and get that working on just one hand rather than two, because the final stage is to go to semi-quavers and tap this rhythm:
[font="Courier New"]
1.&.2.&.3.&.4.&.
RLRLRLRLRLRLRLRL[/font]

Now think about the bassline to the tune you're listening to while you're tapping along; you might be able to spot the notes that aren't on the beat but rather turn up off the beat, e.g. in rapper's delight/ good times the bass part's rhythm goes like
[font="Courier New"]
1.&.2.&.3.&.4.&.1.&.2.&.3.&.4.&.
E...E...E......xx.x.x.x.x.x.x.xA
[/font]
(xs represent other notes that I'm not writing out for clarity) i.e. it switches to the A chord just ahead of the beat. If you try accenting the rhythm as you tap it out, you'll find that it's the left hand holds all the funky syncopated stuff (or at least it does as I've written it, you might be tapping the other way if you're left handed).

(Of course after a few months of working through tunes like this, I now can't do triplets!)

I think that things sounding musical is somewhere between playing the right notes and playing at the right time. Practice slowly and accurately, then build up the speed. If it's rushed or hurried, slow it down and get your timings right.

I hope that's useful! Or at least not boring

Edited June 22, 2007 by funkysimon

[mhuk]

Boring? No! All the posts offer useful, insightful stuff. Using Rapper's Delight as your example is a big help; I'll need to read and try it out a few times but it all makes sense (how easy it is to do is another matter).

I've borrowed a copy of the Ed Friedland book and will also aim to use that as well.

[quote]playing the right notes and playing at the right time[/quote]

Halfway there- all the right notes but not quite at the right time