Pro's and con's for upgrading 90's combo/stack

[mingsta]

I've got a 15" trace elliot 1215 GP12 SMX combo from the mid 90's and a matching 2x10 extension cab.

Sounds good, but the whole setup weigh's in the order of 60kg's and I'm thinking about replacing it with something lighter.

I'm currently weighing up the following options:

1) Stick with it and put up with lugging it for the occassional gig/practice session, as its low cost and sounds fine

2) Flog it and get the Phil Jones PB-300 extension cab for by PJB Bass Cub for a flexible, light weight set up (but possibly lacking volume for big gigs?)

3) Flog it and get either a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.2-210T or Shuttle 6.2/Barefaced Compact setup

Options 2 and 3 will definitely give a portability/weight saving. However, I've not heard any modern amps and was wondering from those of you who've been through a load of gear, would I also be upgrading my tone as well as saving weight? What are your own experiences of these set ups?

Sound wise, really after something versatile but simple - play lots of different styles of music, but don't like fiddling with the amp too much. I'd want something that can put out a warm, punchy tone but has the ability to go clean/hi-fi etc too.

Thanks for any input!!! Will of course go and check out a few options first hand over the xmas period!



Ming

[Mr. Foxen]

Some asked similar recently. If you like the sound of the amp section, have it out into its own enclosure, and get a modern light cab (such as a Barefaced)

[JTUK]

Depends how often you need to lug it about.

If you were to sell.... and you like the sound... you could spend an awful lot of money getting back to where you are now.
and you wouldn't get so much money from your rig. Not saying it is a poor rig but people wont pay what its worth, I suspect, due to the weight.


If it were me, I'd just try and make your rig more portable with a decent trolley....or put casters on the combo

[Paul S]

I did this exact thing - went from a huge Trace Elliot set up to lightweight because of a back injury. Light in weight, but not light sound. I cannot recommend the Barefaced cabs highly enough - they are superb - I have a Compact and Midget used singly or in tandem. They are very transparent and so whatever you put in is what you get out. Changing the head will change the sound and, really, that is the aspect of it that needs more consideration IMO. You need to try and hear different gear to know what you want. I started with a TC Electronic Clasic 450, which was great. I bought a Genz Benz Streamliner 600 and prefer that, so I use it as my main amp now. Maybe I would prefer something else, if I were to hear it, but this will do me for now!

Really the only thing you sacrifice is money - it is not a compromise to get lightweight gear.

[stingrayPete1977]

Credit card-bass direct-no more lugging heavy gear-joy

[JTUK]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1356277108' post='1908677']


Really the only thing you sacrifice is money - it is not a compromise to get lightweight gear.
[/quote]

Have to say I really don't agree with this...but that is for another thread.
I have used quite a few lighter weight options these last few years and
for my No 1 rig where sound is THE thing, none of those light weight options made the grade as far as I
was concerned.

IF carry is a Major factor, then it is a question of can you live with the lighter alternative or compromise..and
I would expect quite a few to say they could or would.

[xgsjx]

I had a Trace Elliott 4x10 combo. Big heavy overrated underpowered thing.
Got a Markbass 2x10 combo & it's about 10 times louder, sounds 100 times better & is 1000 times lighter (44kg)!

But then, like JTUK says... Do you like the TE sound that you have? I'd go shopping & try some stuff out first.

[Lozz196]

Having just done a similar move - went from a Markbass Head & 410 (still 50+ lbs in weight) to a Markbass 1x12 combo & extension cab, I can thoroughly recommend it. The little gear now is so good at regular sized venues, and whilst I`ve never had to push mine on a very large stage, that`s what FOH/stage monitors are for. My back loves my new set-up, as do my ears. If you can afford to make the change, go for it.

Barefaced cabs are a good bet, they put out a very uncoloured sound, so get a bass/amp you like, you`ll love it through a BF cab. I`ve no experience of Genz amps, but many on here seem to love them, the Streamliner being warmer than the Shuttle, from what I`ve read.

Re smaller amps, my personal fave was the Markbass Little Mark Tube, can do warm old-school to crystal clear slap tones at the turn of a couple of controls. Very powerful. Another very versatile amp was the TC Classic 450, again, can do a lot with only changing a couple of settings.

[Paul S]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1356280150' post='1908729']
I have used quite a few lighter weight options these last few years and
[/quote]

Including Barefaced Cabs? From the few I tried, BF were head and shoulders above the others.

[essexbasscat]

Seriously, listen to a whole range of stuff before you spend. There's a crowd of BC'ers that have been in your position and spent a mortgage trying to get 'their' sound back after selling their heavy rig.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1356282134' post='1908761']
Seriously, listen to a whole range of stuff before you spend. There's a crowd of BC'ers that have been in your position and spent a mortgage trying to get 'their' sound back after selling their heavy rig.
[/quote]

Wise words EBC, I`m one of those BC`ers. I was always Ampeg/Marshall through and through - more Ampeg really - but just couldn`t lift the cabs anymore, so realised I needed lightweight. Well I`ve been through a fair few set-ups, but when I realised none were giving me exactly what I wanted, I had to have a re-think. And my thoughts centered on, every time I`ve seen a band, and been impressed by the tone of the bass, the bassist had been using Markbass.

So a good way to find out what will work, see/hear someone else using it first. If they get the tone you want in the mix using a certain amp, chances are, so will you. Buying amps is hit & miss anyway, as what usually sounds rubbish on its own is the exact tone that works so well in the mix, and, very annoyingly, vice-versa. Get a great tone soloed, hear it disappear once the band start.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1356280620' post='1908742']
Including Barefaced Cabs? From the few I tried, BF were head and shoulders above the others.
[/quote]

Don't want to derail the thread.

[JTUK]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1356282134' post='1908761']
Seriously, listen to a whole range of stuff before you spend. There's a crowd of BC'ers that have been in your position and spent a mortgage trying to get 'their' sound back after selling their heavy rig.
[/quote]

know what you mean....

My AAA rig gets heavier every time I upgrade it....to the point that my B rig is TF550-B and 2 Berg NEO 112's.

And I don't think I'll get any thanks for saying this...but my A rig slaughters it. Not that I am saying the B rig sucks... far from it.

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1356284501' post='1908793']


know what you mean....

My AAA rig gets heavier every time I upgrade it....to the point that my B rig is TF550-B and 2 Berg NEO 112's.

And I don't think I'll get any thanks for saying this...but my A rig slaughters it. Not that I am saying the B rig sucks... far from it.
[/quote]

Please specify AAA rig !

[JTUK]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1356284727' post='1908800']
Please specify AAA rig !
[/quote]

DB750, 2xDB210.

Pretty (very, ) pleased with it... quite vintagey.. and a drummer buster in the wrong venue.

Looking for a 610 and if there was a DB610, I'd be all over it



This is why, I would agree, that if the OP thinks the sound is there...I wouldn't hurry to move it on.

Edited December 23, 2012 by JTUK

[mingsta]

Hey guys, thanks for all of the input.

I visited a few shops yesterday. Tried the Phil Jones PB-300 powered cab and it sounded fantastic, really punchy and warm. But the downside is that although it was plenty loud in the shop, I could tell that it might run out of juice in a loud gig/practice situation. Also used a Genz streamliner 600 and shuttle 3.0 - I loved the tubey overdriven sound of the streamliner, but the shuttle seemed a little more focussed and was more versatile. I can easily see why a lot of people recommend having both a shuttle AND a streamliner, but I decided that the shuttle would be the best all rounder.

I've ordered a Shuttle 6.2 210T from the states - I considered going for a head and separate cab but I really want the convenience of a combo.

FYI - if anyone's after a Shuttle 6.2 112T - do a search on ebay and a seller called musicpower is selling for $799 - works out a couple hundred pounds cheaper after tax etc though the discount finishes today.

[ezbass]

[quote name='mingsta' timestamp='1356433041' post='1910148'] Tried the Phil Jones PB-300 powered cab and it sounded fantastic, really punchy and warm. But the downside is that although it was plenty loud in the shop, I could tell that it might run out of juice in a loud gig/practice situation.
[/quote]
I was looking at this myself to couple with my Cub, but the general view of those in the know is that it is a bit wanting in the volume dept despite the wattage. This is certainly true of the Cub, 100w through its 2x5 speakers isn't as loud as you'd normally expect from that wattage.

[mingsta]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1356435195' post='1910183']
I was looking at this myself to couple with my Cub, but the general view of those in the know is that it is a bit wanting in the volume dept despite the wattage. This is certainly true of the Cub, 100w through its 2x5 speakers isn't as loud as you'd normally expect from that wattage.
[/quote]

Yeah I was half expecting this. From everything that I've read, it seems that a lot of power is needed to drive those 5" speakers. What was a surprise was how warm and punchy they sounded as I was expecting something very hi-fi and clinical for some reason. I think where the PJB's shine is for lower volume or acoustic gigs where sound quality above volume is the priority...its a shame that for bigger volumes you'd need either a monster amp or one of their behemoth cabs which isn't really practical for the average pub gig etc.

I tell you what though, I've just picked up a Bass cub for home practice and it is THE solution for getting a really good tone at low volume. Sounds full and fat even a playing-at-midnight type volume. While its a bit spendy for a practice amp (got mine for £350 from thomann) I spend far more time going through the practice rig than playing through the big stack.

[Lozz196]

Always makes sense to have a good sound for home practice - nothing puts you off more than playing through a rubbish sound.

[chris_b]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1356276640' post='1908665']
....Depends how often you need to lug it about.

If it were me, I'd just try and make your rig more portable with a decent trolley....
[/quote]

+1

[Jack]

There's a certain 'oomph' that is neither volume nor sound quality that you only get from a big rig, but is a 2x10 + 1x15 really that big? Bet you'd love two good 1x12s and micro head. Of course, casters are cheaper.

[Conan]

[quote name='Jack' timestamp='1356440352' post='1910229']
There's a certain 'oomph' that is neither volume nor sound quality that you only get from a big rig,
[/quote]

Maybe that's just down to the number of speakers?

For nearly 20 years I played through the "typical" Trace stack - AH250, 1518 and 1048... loud as hell but as heavy as one of Jupiter's moons!

I arrived at my current set-up via Ampeg and Ashdown and can honestly say that my sound now is as big, clear and bassy as anything I have had before.

To be fair, I have never tried any of the "boutique" gear that others have - but I know how I want to sound in a band and my BF Vintage gives me that sound.

Sounds crap in the house though... but that's a separate issue!

[Lozz196]

Yes, there is something about the big rigs, and their "oomph", and I think it is the multiple speakers. It`s the size of the sound, plus, if a valve amp, the richness of the that sound as well.

I`ve always liked multiple speakers - 412, 410 & 210 etc - but have come to realise that I simply can`t lug them around, so now have two 112s. Not as much size to the sound, but, and the important thing, not as much a reduction as the numbers would suggest, at the volume of the gigs I do. I`m sure pushing the volume up would show my rigs limitations, but I`m unlikely to be in a band where I would need to do that anyway.