Non 4 string social stigma?

[TRBboy]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1356954209' post='1915464']

Absolutely! One tries to better his field. The other doesn't give a damn but craves recognition anyway... Ironic isn't it? As I said before: laziness and lack of skills desperately searches for justification. Call me whatever you want, nazi, elitist, fascist, snob... I love music and I'm really tired of people raping this art in the name of entertainment.
[/quote]

Sorry, but I think your attitude is pathetic! You clearly have some issues......


I don't crave recognition and I'm not lazy, but I do try to better myself and I do give a damn about my playing. I play for my own enjoyment and to entertain others. How does this fit into your logic?

I've met people like you before, pretentious $%@#* who think that anyone without a music degree shouldn't be allowed to enjoy music.

[Antiloco]

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1356956247' post='1915503']


Sorry, but I think your attitude is pathetic! You clearly have some issues......


I don't crave recognition and I'm not lazy, but I do try to better myself and I do give a damn about my playing. I play for my own enjoyment and to entertain others. How does this fit into your logic?

I've met people like you before, pretentious $%@#* who think that anyone without a music degree shouldn't be allowed to enjoy music.
[/quote]

You failed to get the message. It has nothing to do with degrees. And by the way a person who doesn't see the world with your eyes doesn't need to have issues, it's just a different opinion, nothing more nothing less.

[BigRedX]

Unless you confine all your playing to the bedroom or the studio, like it or not, image is massively important.

Musicians who don't get that are likely to be ditched the moment the serious money comes calling. Of course if you do it just as a hobby with no further ambitions that's fair enough, play what you want - just hope that the rest of your band feels the same way.

BTW I get away with playing a 5-string bass in what is essentially a punk band because firstly I use the extra low notes and secondly because I play basses that are so visually extreme that the extra string is their least important feature.

[Toddy]

Yes Ive experienced this,, was going to write a long list of reasons, but seen as your not going to even read this (lol) a couple of points, its horses for courses, at the moment 5 and 6 stringers are woefully unfashionable,, ignore this at your peril,,Even Guy Pratt said in an interview,, "god ive even got a couple of 5 strings somewhere,, what were we thinking?" if you turn up with an old Jazz everyone relaxes and guesses you know what your doing,, plus,,most popular music at min, really isn't in 5 string territory. yes metal etc can be different,, but my fav heavy bands didn't need a 5,, you can ignore trends and fashion,, but they wont ignore you...for now,, my 5 string stays at home...btw,, no malice intended,, and have a good new yr !

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1356783472' post='1913513']
Not so sure about this. I have come across drum snobbery - a jam night where the guy that ran it (a drummer) once brought just kick, snare and hi-hat with the comment "that'll sort the men out from the boys"!
[/quote]

I'm a firm believer that the smaller the drum kit, the better the drummer!

[chris_b]

[quote name='Toddy' timestamp='1356957012' post='1915519']
....what were we thinking?"....if you turn up with an old Jazz everyone relaxes and guesses you know what your doing....
[/quote]

Guy Pratt doesn't know why he bought a 5 string bass? Come on!!!

How can turning up with a Fender make anyone assume "you know what you're doing?"

This is all a pretty stupid and elitist stuff.

Players at Guy Pratt's level should be playing with their ears and not their eyes.

[stingrayPete1977]

Has Guy Pratt played since the 80's?

[chris_b]

[quote name='Toddy' timestamp='1356957012' post='1915519']
....you can ignore trends and fashion,, but they wont ignore you....
[/quote]

Oh dear.

I'm out of fashion again.

I can live with it!

[BigRedX]

I don't get this "using a Fender is alway alright" business. If you showed up to an audition for a band that I was putting together where I wasn't playing bass myself, while using a Fender (or clone) wouldn't automatically fail you. However, if you passed the playing and personality parts of the audition, I would be asking you to bring something more visually interesting to the next rehearsal.

[Musicman20]

I think the topic has got out of hand.

We are in a current trend for everything 'vintage' and everyone is praising flat wounds!

I've heard that string manufacturers are having to concentrate more on flats than they normally do due to the current trend for EVERYONE to have a P bass in sunburst/rosewood/tort with flats. I've got one so I'm just as guilty! Just look at how many bass manufacturers have started knocking out high end P basses.

Js and Ps will always be popular, but I remember when the whole grunge movement was around and Fender basses weren't as popular.

It's all a cycle. Fender don't care as Ps and Js will sell no matter what, but they must be selling very well at the moment.

Me? I have the traditional basses, but if a band can't handle a Stingray 5, then they need to get a grip. It's almost classic in its aesthetics anyway!!!

I won't stop owning and playing 4s, so I suppose I can be flexible.

It's worth bearing in mind that I'd be more concerned about my appearance in a band over the gear. If its a band following a certain fashion or style, the player is probably more focused on compared to the instrument. Turn up in frumpy old loose jeans and scruffy t shirts and they might be judging you when you think it's the bass haha!

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1356784180' post='1913532']

It boils down to froth v substance - unfortunately there's a certain amount of froth around amongst the music scene.

[/quote]

The problem in a nutshell!

Ok, ok, I have been known, in the past, to watch bands where the bassist looked completely incompetent on his 5-string and snarkily remark to my bandmates, "well, some of us manage with only four...", but that was just sarcasm. I fail to see what's wrong with preferring 5, 6 or even 7-string basses, and, as someone bringing his red SG bass (4-string) to gigs with increasing frequency, there's nowt wrong with a bass that raises a couple of eyebrows.

Rest assured, it's not just us: the guitarist in my blues trio once borrowed by guitar (a cheap SG copy) for a gig while his was away for a setup. Some guy talking to him afterwards was clearly quite impressed with his playing, but apparently looked disgusted when my guitarist told him he normally plays a Fender Strat!

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1356959035' post='1915565']
We are in a current trend for everything 'vintage' and everyone is praising flat wounds!

It's worth bearing in mind that I'd be more concerned about my appearance in a band over the gear. If its a band following a certain fashion or style, the player is probably more focused on compared to the instrument. Turn up in frumpy old loose jeans and scruffy t shirts and they might be judging you when you think it's the bass haha!
[/quote]

Personally I think that it's hilarious that so many people are slavishly aping musicians from the past who got their sound, technique and looks by doing their own thing and ignoring what was accepted and what had gone before.

When I'm on stage my choice of instrument to play is as important as what I am wearing. It's all part of the image that the band portrays.

[chris_b]

When established blues guys like Albert Collins and the younger players like Kenny Neal started featuring 5 string basses in the 80's, that made them cool.

Then 5'ers moved into Soul, Funk, R&B and Hip Hop. That made them super cool.

It seems that 5 string basses are not considered cool in genres that I don't think are cool to start with.

I'm sure we'll all live through it.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1356956576' post='1915513']
Unless you confine all your playing to the bedroom or the studio, like it or not, image is massively important.

Musicians who don't get that are likely to be ditched the moment the serious money comes calling. Of course if you do it just as a hobby with no further ambitions that's fair enough, play what you want - just hope that the rest of your band feels the same way.

[/quote]
I think much of this is true, as the moment you step on to a stage, in front of a camera etc, your performance is visual as well as sonic. Even those players who give the impression of not being concerned about visuals are making an aesthetic statement, whether intentionally or otherwise. But at the same time, most of my favourite musicians have chosen their instruments based on their own criteria, rather than just following the established conventions for their genre. I'd bet that this is true of the players you admire too.
There are situations where I might consider playing a different instrument at the request of a band leader, but I'd really need to be convinced of the vision they had for the band, not just "you need a four string 'cos we're like, rock'n roll an' that". EDIT; your last post appeared while I was writing this, and you've just expressed much the same sentiment as I was trying to get at!
I find it hard to make the five string = modern / four string = traditional distinction that a few posters allude to. I play a passive bass with nylon tapewounds and like a fairly retro, valve amp sort of sound, but I also have a B-string. Only a handful of low notes in our set would tell you that I'm not playing a four string Jazz, if you had your eyes closed. There are much more "modern" sounding guys out there on four string Fenders, especially if they've got roundwounds, active circuitry and amps with tweeters.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Beer of the Bass

[LukeFRC]

why don't we all just tune the 4 strings BEAD and see what happens?

[ThomBassmonkey]

I think some people are getting caught up in the looks of the instrument. The thread is (or was, I've not read the last few pages, just this one) about string number.

Of course a BC would look odd at a smooth jazz gig but that's irrespective of how many strings it has. A 4 would look just as out of place as a 5+.

I play Ray 5s, IMO they would suit for any gig I could imagine, both aesthetically and tonally. If someone turned me down for a gig purely because they're 5 strings, I'd be laughing my ass out the door.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='Toddy' timestamp='1356957012' post='1915519']
if you turn up with an old Jazz everyone relaxes and guesses you know what your doing,, plus,,most popular music at min, really isn't in 5 string territory[/quote]

Hmmm therein lies a problem - I've seen more poor (well let's say challenged or limited) players playing Fenders than anything else. You could say that should be the case statistically because Fenders are probably the most popular of the name makes currently. However I know that many hobbyist players (particularly in my age range, where money is available to spend) are probably at beginner level and buy them because of the name/brand kudos etc etc.

I'm afraid that the idea that anyone turning up at an audition with a Fender relaxes everyone because they obviously know what they're doing is as daft as saying anyone with the wrong coloured hair (or the wrong type of trainers etc etc) will piss people off. If it was me I'd probably think........yawn OMG not another!

Back in the 70s this may have been true but Fenders are ten a penny in comparison these days (in quantities in the hands of hobbyists/players) and believe me, there are some extremely limted players out there (some of whom are likely to diss any non Fender they see as well - part of justifying their decision to buy what they did, possibly)!!

Edited December 31, 2012 by drTStingray

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1356962960' post='1915666']
Hmmm therein lies a problem - I've seen more poor (well let's say challenged or limited) players playing Fenders than anything else. You could say that should be the case statistically because Fenders are probably the most popular of the name makes currently. However I know that many hobbyist players (particularly in my age range, where money is available to spend) are probably at beginner level and buy them because of the name/brand kudos etc etc.
[/quote]

In my experience, people who take bass seriously enough to practice and improve themselves to a good standard are more likely to have taken an interest in the instruments they play. Fenders are the main big name associated with basses so I guess a lot of people who are lazy will get one because that's what they think is good without doing a lot of research.

Someone who really takes bass seriously will make sure they get an instrument that suits them (for whatever reason, image, style, sound etc) which will at least lead them to look at other basses.

Of course there are great bassists that will play whatever people give them and there are great bassists that have looked at all the options and picked a Fender, but with Fender being the "default" choice for a good instrument by the great unwashed, I don't think it's any great teller for how good someone actually is.

[cloudburst]

[quote name='Toddy' timestamp='1356957012' post='1915519']
most popular music at min, really isn't in 5 string territory
[/quote]

What does this mean?
5 strings aren't just about lower notes.
They are also about being able to play the same passages across the fretboard rather than along it, meaning you can stay in the one position.
And they are also obviously about having a good thumb-rest for the e-string :-)

CB

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Toddy' timestamp='1356957012' post='1915519']
...most popular music at min, really isn't in 5 string territory.
[/quote]

I'd also disagree with this. Currently my originals band is the most traditional musically of any band I've been in since I started playing in the mid 70s. I also use more notes lower than low E than any band I've been in previously.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Threads like this remind me why I dislike the weird view that you often get in forums.
The bit up above about 5 s and 6s being woefully unfashionable made me giggle.

Guess it depends on your own sense of self worth and your ability to know what's the right tool for the job.

I come from a background that demands you be both an entertainer (functions most of my career) and a musician (taught in the brass band system and spent many years backing cabaret acts sight reading parts chucked at me 30mins before curtain up).

In such situations you get used to the fact that you must entertain (that's why customers pay you) and it's also important to actually be a musician who can be relied upon to do a job.

If I bring at least a 5 with me, it'll definitely go down to the occasional low D or C that the song demands.
If I bring a 6 with me, I might make the higher up notes more fluently without bothering the dusty end of the fingerboard too much.
Anyone I would choose to play with understands this. It's about tools for the job, not pointless jousting on internet forums about the why, wherefores and imponderables of one bass over another.

I can't possibly split hairs on the importance of being both an entertainer and a musician. Everyone who I work with and have worked with knows this too. That's what we're there for. To not be an entertainer is not worth paying money to watch. To not be a musician renders you unqualified to be up there.

For anyone not blessed with this understanding, I genuinely fail to comprehend how you might not know this.

[voodoobassman]

I'm also a 5 stringer, also in the North East and have had this happen to me too. I blame the troglodytes who play the guitars, they feel threatened by someone who might be able to do something other than stand in the back row and plonk along to their guitar hero antics.

[WalMan]

Seems somewhat narrow minded & anyway, who actually looks at what the BP is using/doing? On more than one occasion I have had from both band & followers "Ooh that's nice. New toy? When did you get that / start using a 5 string?" to which the reply is of course "What this bass that I've used at every gig / rehearsal for the last 18 months?" - Frankly not sure which of these sums it up best or but it normally gets

Edited December 31, 2012 by WalMan

[skankdelvar]

[b]Wanted - Bass Player[/b]

Regular work, rehearse weekly (Tuesdays). Prefer lazy whore but confused clowns will also be considered. No timewasters.

Call Terry on 00927 3420000

[Vinny]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1356970290' post='1915827']
[b]Wanted - Bass Player[/b]

Regular work, rehearse weekly (Tuesdays). Prefer lazy whore but confused clowns will also be considered. No timewasters.

Call Terry on 00927 3420000
[/quote]

Are you sure this is the right number, I don't seem to be getting an answer.