using pa instead of bass amp?

[xgsjx]

I've used a 30watt 1x12 combo for backline at a loud gig with PA support & a shed building drummer & had no trouble with on stage volume. It's about placement & EQing.
Don't expect miracles, but a 1x10 combo would be ample for monitoring.

[JTUK]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1356963515' post='1915681']
I've used a 30watt 1x12 combo for backline at a loud gig with PA support & a shed building drummer & had no trouble with on stage volume. It's about placement & EQing.
Don't expect miracles, but a 1x10 combo would be ample for monitoring.
[/quote]

I can't see this at all. 30watts and a shed-builder..??
I can't see 30 watts getting past the drummer and certainly not a loud drumer so no one else will be able to hear and play to you.
This does not augur well for a playing band. You may just about get away with it...in a fashion..if you are squeezed into a corner but 30 watts..??
There is nothing you can do to EQ more watts out of that...you may be able to run the amp so bass light..but why would you play with that...??
the sound would be awful, or at best functional...but as for the band playing to it..?

It would not be my way of approaching playing in a band .. but if you can make it work, good luck.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1356966337' post='1915746']
I can't see this at all. 30watts and a shed-builder..??
I can't see 30 watts getting past the drummer and certainly not a loud drumer so no one else will be able to hear and play to you.
This does not augur well for a playing band. You may just about get away with it...in a fashion..if you are squeezed into a corner but 30 watts..??
There is nothing you can do to EQ more watts out of that...you may be able to run the amp so bass light..but why would you play with that...??
the sound would be awful, or at best functional...but as for the band playing to it..?

It would not be my way of approaching playing in a band .. but if you can make it work, good luck.
[/quote]

PA support handles all the lower frequencies, so they can be rolled back from the combo a good bit.
Watts have little to do with the overall volume.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1356896810' post='1914924']
If the drummer prefers this...he must play pretty light..?
What do the other guys hear..?
[/quote]

We're a three piece so there's only the singer/guitarist to worry about. The drummers pretty experienced so he just plays at whatever volume we need and so far we haven't needed to mic' the drums. Gigs aren't the problem as I just roll of the bass and you hear that from the PA anyway. At rehearsals it is pushing it a bit without the PA support, You have to put up with a bit less bass and the speaker will hit the magnet if I forget to roll off. Mainly I put the Hartke into a corner and get boundary reinforcement from the walls and floors.

Drummers generally only want timing information and cues from the bass and this is mainly in the midrange anyway, the way we set up he gets more midrange from my monitor than he did from the stack and because it is small I usually manage to squeeze it in behind him. I think he hears the Toms and Kick better without a lot of deep bass on stage and the bonus is a lot less spill through the mic's. He's a bit of a tone freak with his drums and likes to hear them clearly.

Remember that loudness is logarithmic so 120W is only 6dB down from 500W so 6dB of bass cut allows you to be a similar volume in the rest of the range, You don't lose as much as you'd think and the increase in clarity and cleaning up the front of house sound is worth the trade.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1356972839' post='1915883']
We're a three piece so there's only the singer/guitarist to worry about. The drummers pretty experienced so he just plays at whatever volume we need and so far we haven't needed to mic' the drums. Gigs aren't the problem as I just roll of the bass and you hear that from the PA anyway. At rehearsals it is pushing it a bit without the PA support, You have to put up with a bit less bass and the speaker will hit the magnet if I forget to roll off. Mainly I put the Hartke into a corner and get boundary reinforcement from the walls and floors.

Drummers generally only want timing information and cues from the bass and this is mainly in the midrange anyway, the way we set up he gets more midrange from my monitor than he did from the stack and because it is small I usually manage to squeeze it in behind him. I think he hears the Toms and Kick better without a lot of deep bass on stage and the bonus is a lot less spill through the mic's. He's a bit of a tone freak with his drums and likes to hear them clearly.

Remember that loudness is logarithmic so 120W is only 6dB down from 500W so 6dB of bass cut allows you to be a similar volume in the rest of the range, You don't lose as much as you'd think and the increase in clarity and cleaning up the front of house sound is worth the trade.
[/quote]

Ok...

Have to hear it in context, but not something I'd go near, tbh.
We all have to hear what everyone plays so we can connect to it...and react to it and the stage volume is all part of this.

[Truckstop]

I like onstage volume to be as quiet as possible. Even in pubs, I like to have everything through the PA. I have a couple of small subs and a couple of decent tops. I use two small 10" PA speakers on amp stands for monitors; one at each side of the stage area pointing into the middle.

Everyone can hear everything perfectly and the volume's kept in check. A few venues want us back mainly because we're nice and quiet; we don't drown the place out and give people headaches! I find listening to an overly loud band very very tiring indeed.

Back to OP, yes it can be done and it makes sense. Buy a small decent combo (there's a GK MB115 for £200 in the for sale section; ideal for home and live use) and then spend another £200 on half decent PA subs (although ive seen subs go for -£100 on ebay recently) Peavey are probably best for the money. You can get good power amps for about £100 and just sort yourself out a crossover and you're ready to rock!

Truckstop

Truckstop

[nottswarwick]

I have been using a markbass mini cmd 121p combo on it's own on a few gigs recently when we have had one or two subs with the PA. In these scenarios, DI'd into the PA, it was ideal. But one gig with a bugger of a load in we only took the tops in, so it did not DI and was lacking in bottom end, but I had not taken my other cab with me.

I think to be fair I prefer just using the combo on it's own and using a DI into the PA. Certainly makes the onstage sound cleaner, and we almost always use one or two FOH subs anyway.

[JTUK]

And you'll live and die on your sound.. so I'd say do it properly and do it well.

How much kit you'll have to carry and how much you'll have to pay is going to be your journey of discovery.

We have bands round here using 4-5k rigs in pubs... but that doesn't garauntee you can hear everything....??????
but there you go, and we have guys with £200 tops which, franky, kill any chance with the vocals and the vox aren't great
in the first place let alone the shagged horns not producing a nice sound.

I can tell you which bands have a decent sound on the circuit and which bands have no chance...so whatever you have, you stand a
better chance if you understand how to use it.

I have to say, P.A and vox are a pet theme with us... and there is no way I'd sacrifice the band sound on a light carry if it doesn't deliver..
even if we are playing a pub.

FWIW, we get by with KW12's and no subs for most gigs.

[keeptrying]

much food for thought, part of the reason for wanting to use pa and a small monitor was to get a good balanced sound at sensible volumes and not have band and audience deaf. I've walked out of pubs before when the band has been so loud it hurts. For me it's more about clarity than volume.
Thank you to everyone for your input. hopefully people will appreciate our efforts to get a good sound even if they don't like what we're playing