"Better?"

[Conan]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1357164385' post='1918610']
Really? Oh dear. Three on that list really get on my tits!
[/quote]

Yeah, but not Geddy Lee though, surely? He's da bizz!

[discreet]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1357164451' post='1918612']
Yeah, but not Geddy Lee though, surely? He's da bizz![/quote]

I'm saying no more, otherwise I may have to leave the country!

[mbellishment]

I would say I was a much better bass player 8/9 years ago than I am today, so there must be some way of measuring skill/ability etc?

Geddy Lee is a great player but his voice = nails down a blackboard IMO!
Peace x

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='mbellishment' timestamp='1357165165' post='1918636']
I would say I was a much better bass player 8/9 years ago than I am today, so there must be some way of measuring skill/ability etc?
[/quote]

In the past years I've become better at timing and writing bass lines, and getting a good tone... But worse at playing fast technical stuff because I've focused on the former... So am I a better or worse player overall?

Edited January 2, 2013 by chrismuzz

[mbellishment]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1357165525' post='1918647']
In the past years I've become better at timing and writing bass lines, and getting a good tone... But worse at playing fast technical stuff because I've focused on the former... So am I a better or worse player overall?
[/quote]
Well you're obviously a much better bassist now man!

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='mbellishment' timestamp='1357165613' post='1918650']
Well you're obviously a much better bassist now man!
[/quote]

Probably, I do miss being able to piss around at top speed though

[molan]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1357164385' post='1918610']


Really? Oh dear. Three on that list really get on my tits!
[/quote]

Me too - I wonder if its the same three

[discreet]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1357166324' post='1918666']
Me too - I wonder if its the same three [/quote]

I guess we'll never know.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357036661' post='1916495']
Is it possible to be better or worse than anyone in art?[/quote]

No, for lots of reasons that are too dull to go into..

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357036661' post='1916495']Are we all the same? [/quote]

No. No we're not. But some of us might be similar.

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357036661' post='1916495']Is this too subjective to measure? [/quote]

Measurement requires an objective common standard. Although one might measure the number of people who hold the same opinion (which opinion - in the context of musical appreciation - would be a subjective assessment). So we could reliably say 'Lots of people[i] like [/i]this song / performance but that doesn't mean it's good'

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357036661' post='1916495']Isn't this thinking curling the way for laziness to take advantage of people with the will to grow?
[/quote]

Translation engines are not ideally suited to the furtherance of philosophical discourse and may introduce unwanted confusion or interpersonal friction. Nevertheless I think I understand.

We are asking "Does a group's refusal to subscribe to a hierarchy of 'betterness' create an environment wherein simple laziness may impede an individual's capacity for growth?"

One might put it another way: "Do we reject the idea of musical 'superiority simply to cloak our laziness?"

The answer is .... possibly. Depends on the individual and their circumstances. Some people might wish to acquire 'superiority' but not have enough time to do so, due, perhaps, to other commitments.

Being a musician, professional or amateur, entails much more than skill on one's instrument. For one thing, the musician must take time to sleep and eat. Both food and sleep must be purchased, which entails an income. That income requires time to generate, but is essential if one is to survive and to grow.

One might argue that organising and performing a paid gig takes one away from one's practice regime, thus reducing one's capacity for growth. But it also helps to secure the resources one requires. A compromise must therefore be reached.

Sure, some people [i]may[/i] be lazy but others may simply be maintaining a balance between the various aspects of their life. In other cases, the instrumentalist may simply be of the view that their musical skills are sufficient to deliver the outcome they seek.

That any of these different situations should lead the individuals concerned to be perceived as 'lazy' derives from the desire of another individual to externalise their private and entirely subjective opinion. Such.observations are unlikely to be welcomed by the recipents, given the common view that all of us should be allowed to live our lives as we wish, free from the pejorative observations of those unacqainted with the circumstances of those they choose to 'measure'.

Edited January 3, 2013 by skankdelvar

[Dad3353]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1357224809' post='1919350']...Translation engines are not ideally suited to the furtherance of philosophical discourse and may introduce unwanted confusion or interpersonal friction. Nevertheless I think I understand.

We are asking "Does a group's refusal to subscribe to a hierarchy of 'betterness' create an environment wherein simple laziness may impede an individual's capacity for growth?"

One might put it another way: "Do we reject the idea of musical 'superiority simply to cloak our laziness?"

The answer is .... possibly. Depends on the individual and their circumstances. Some people might wish to acquire 'superiority' but not have enough time to do so, due, perhaps, to other commitments.

Being a musician, professional or amateur, entails much more than skill on one's instrument. For one thing, the musician must take time to sleep and eat. Both food and sleep must be purchased, which entails an income. That income requires time to generate, but is essential if one is to survive and to grow.

One might argue that organising and performing a paid gig takes one away from one's practice regime, thus reducing one's capacity for growth. But it also helps to secure the resources one requires. A compromise must therefore be reached.

Sure, some people [i]may[/i] be lazy but others may simply be maintaining a balance between the various aspects of their life. In other cases, the instrumentalist may simply be of the view that their musical skills are sufficient to deliver the outcome they seek.

That any of these different situations should lead the individuals concerned to be perceived as 'lazy' derives from the desire of another individual to externalise their private and entirely subjective opinion. Such.observations are unlikely to be welcomed by the recipents, given the common view that all of us should be allowed to live our lives as we wish, free from the pejorative observations of those unacqainted with the circumstances of those they choose to 'measure'.
[/quote]

...or not. Discuss...

[discreet]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1357224809' post='1919350']
...to be perceived as 'lazy' derives from the desire of another individual to externalise their private and entirely subjective opinion.[/quote]

I get a lot of that from the current mrs discreet.
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Edited January 3, 2013 by discreet

[Happy Jack]

The correct answer to all this is: [i]"It depends[/i]."

Either that, or "[i]42[/i]".

I forget which.

[Jus Lukin]

[quote]I get a lot of that from[b] the current [/b]mrs discreet.[/quote]

That sounds ominously temporary!

[Gust0o]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1357227470' post='1919400']
I get a lot of that from the current mrs discreet.[/quote]

[Dingus]

In short , yes it is possible to better or worse than other artists in the same discipline . Art involves a certain degree of craft - you need knowledge and aquired skills , and it is possible for some people to be better at those skills than others in one way or another . Take playing the bass guitar for example . It's not just a question of expressing yourself , moreso it's about learning the intellectual and manual skills neccesary to conceive of and execute the basslines . If you don't know how to play , it's like someone who can't read ,write or speak attempting to write a novel . All you would be making is a racket , not expressing yourself in any tangible way . The whole pesonal expression thing when it comes to art is a bit of a red herring . Human beings cannot help but express themselves in almost everything they create . It is an inherent part of the human condition for them to do so . There is no need to self- conciously promulgate personal expression as an ends in itself .

The idea of the artist as a autonomous creative force with their work born out of an internal creative genius is a fairly recent and highly romantic idea . Ironically enough , in the ages before this idea became prevailent the artist was considered more of a craftsman than an inspired creative force , and artists learned the skills of their chosen creative medium in the same way any apprentice learns a trade . The higher expression of aesthetic beauty was largely an afterthought .

[peteb]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1357230067' post='1919459']
In short , yes it is possible to better or worse than other artists in the same discipline . Art involves a certain degree of craft - you need knowledge and aquired skills , and it is possible for some people to be better at those skills than others in one way or another . Take playing the bass guitar for example . It's not just a question of expressing yourself , moreso it's about learning the intellectual and manual skills neccesary to conceive of and execute the basslines . If you don't know how to play , it's like someone who can't read ,write or speak attempting to write a novel . All you would be making is a racket , not expressing yourself in any tangible way . The whole pesonal expression thing when it comes to art is a bit of a red herring . Human beings cannot help but express themselves in almost everything they create . It is an inherent part of the human condition for them to do so . There is no need to self- conciously promulgate personal expression as an ends in itself .

The idea of the artist as a autonomous creative force with their work born out of an internal creative genius is a fairly recent and highly romantic idea . Ironically enough , in the ages before this idea became prevailent the artist was considered more of a craftsman than an inspired creative force , and artists learned the skills of their chosen creative medium in the same way any apprentice learns a trade . The higher expression of aesthetic beauty was largely an afterthought .
[/quote]
Well said that man!

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1357227470' post='1919400']
I get a lot of that from the current mrs discreet.[/quote]

I got quite a lot of it from Mrs DV while I was writing all that old toss. Something about going out to the supermarket.

"No time to think about toilet cleaner," I roared, "I'm sat here expressing myself just so some swedish bloke won't feel left out."