Antiloco Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I've been into several forums now where there seems to be a tabu around talking about someone being better or worse in musical situations. I wonder what the debate climate looks like here in bass chat so I put the discussion on the table: Is it possible to be better or worse than anyone in art? Are we all the same? Is this too subjective to measure? Isn't this thinking curling the way for laziness to take advantage of people with the will to grow? Etc, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Yes, No, Yes, No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 All very subjective - what is "better" in my opinion may not be the case in somebody else's...(of course they would be wrong.. .) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydye Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I think there's a pretty good balance between appearing humble (recognising that no matter how good you think you are, there's always someone better) and encouraging improvement in less skilled players / those who haven't had the years of experience. There are a few threads about certain villfied players, mostly because of their character rather than their playing, generally though this is a forum for pointing out excellence to aspire to and encouraging each other to practice and improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Playing bass is arty but also technical.... I put it down to envy that the business is often very arbitary about who it rewards and that many here think they could cover a gig that earns some people a lot of money, better, or at least as good. I don't think you should waste your time thinking about it too much.... but we ike to chat so the subject is fair game It's banter..who cares..? you have other things in your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbyrne Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Depends if you mean competent.....or not..... G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I like this.... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9-PbqoBA2k"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9-PbqoBA2k[/url] and I like this.... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvwqSMRtoSI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvwqSMRtoSI[/url] Is one better than the other because one is more technical than the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 The questioning is not technique related although a proper technique will always be needed to the style you intend to play. Even punk or nirvana. Maybe the real question is: is it possible to be regarded as better than somebody else in music? Is everything subjective? And if not what would be a correct way to measure someones level? The amount of control of the instrument is the only parameter that comes to mind....all the others are a matter of taste. It's a hard question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Of course it's OK to say someone is better or worse. But you have to be aware that that's only in your opinion and there's a million people out there who will disagree with you. Art is analogue, not digital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1357044059' post='1916627'] Art is analogue, not digital. [/quote] [IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/h4ppyjack/Just%20Stuff/Sundry/freedombarcode.jpg[/IMG] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357043824' post='1916622'] The questioning is not technique related although a proper technique will always be needed to the style you intend to play. Even punk or nirvana. Maybe the real question is: is it possible to be regarded as better than somebody else in music? Is everything subjective? And if not what would be a correct way to measure someones level? The amount of control of the instrument is the only parameter that comes to mind....all the others are a matter of taste. It's a hard question. [/quote] Who decides who has the correct amount of control of the instrument? I am a novice upright player and already hit two correct ways to play it according to the experts, neither are how the rockabilly guys play so thats three methods to argue about to start with, close your eyes and see if you enjoy the music, if not turn it off, if you do seek out some more from the same artist that system has worked for 100's of years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 The correct amount of control would be the amount necessary to get you through a musical piece decently. It's a fact that everyone can't play everything otherwise we wouldn't have students. Who measures what a student needs to improve? Well...someone with a greater amount of control aka a teacher. But music is not about control...or is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 But if someone is creating something new who decides if its right or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 [quote name='andydye' timestamp='1357042348' post='1916601'] I think there's a pretty good balance between appearing humble (recognising that no matter how good you think you are, there's always someone better) and encouraging improvement in less skilled players / those who haven't had the years of experience. [/quote] Appearing humble......... humble?....... hum ble ???? Nope - you got me there , gonna have to google that one !!!!!!!!!!! All I know is this Re. better or worse - if I play/practise I get better , if I don't play or practise I get worse. And re. knowledge/skill being unimportant when it comes to art........ you can't break the rules or push the boundarys uness you know what they are to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 [quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1357047992' post='1916692'] All I know is this Re. better or worse - if I play/practise I get better , if I don't play or practise I get worse. And re. knowledge/skill being unimportant when it comes to art........ you can't break the rules or push the boundarys uness you know what they are to start with. [/quote] Exactly. So why are there people out there that demand recognition when they haven't finished their homework? Just because art is subjective? That's the real lack of humbleness to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1357047814' post='1916687'] But if someone is creating something new who decides if its right or not? [/quote] Nobody and that's partly the problem. Hence gangnam style is the most played tune on the radio right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I injured myself and wasn't able to play in my band for a while. They recruited someone to cover who was a 'better' player than me. More technical, busier, added a slap solo in one song etc. When I recovered the band welcomed me back with open arms and a couple of them said it was good to have me back because I was a 'better' player for them and my ability, timing, technique etc suited them more. The drummer (who is quite technical) in particular said how pleased he was to have me back. In this case 'better', from a technical perspective, meant 'worse' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Rules? Teachers? Students? Jesus. If I hear something I like, then... cool. No point complicating things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357048711' post='1916709'] Nobody and that's partly the problem. Hence gangnam style is the most played tune on the radio right now. [/quote] I'm not keen on crap like that but I have found the off switch I dont see him demanding we like gangnam style anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1357049199' post='1916719'] I injured myself and wasn't able to play in my band for a while. They recruited someone to cover who was a 'better' player than me. More technical, busier, added a slap solo in one song etc. When I recovered the band welcomed me back with open arms and a couple of them said it was good to have me back because I was a 'better' player for them and my ability, timing, technique etc suited them more. The drummer (who is quite technical) in particular said how pleased he was to have me back. In this case 'better', from a technical perspective, meant 'worse' [/quote] I doubt he was better than you technically if the others prefer you. The only way to know would have been to make the both of you play the same line. Plus that technique without a brain is pretty useless anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357049831' post='1916733'] I doubt he was better than you technically if the others prefer you. The only way to know would have been to make the both of you play the same line. Plus that technique without a brain is pretty useless anyway... [/quote] Why? , I have been in similar situations where the rest of the band preffered my simpler style over people who were both more technical and up on their theory etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiloco Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1357050009' post='1916738'] Why? , I have been in similar situations where the rest of the band preffered my simpler style over people who were both more technical and up on their theory etc. [/quote] You simply fail to recognize what technique is al about then but hey... Who am I to teach you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357059836' post='1916965'] Who am I to teach you? [/quote] Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Shall we lock this one too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357059836' post='1916965'] You simply fail to recognize what technique is al about then but hey... Who am I to teach you? [/quote] Who am I , though , to not take the opportunity to learn from you - or from anyone else. I've learned stuff from players who many would say aren't fit to carry my amp as well as from world famous names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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