2 x 10 or 4 x 10

[xgsjx]

[quote name='aende' timestamp='1357634894' post='1925540']
Thanks - I would like to try for 4 ohm at the amp as I would then get full power.....so, I could use 1 cab at 4 ohm for practice and then daisy chain another cab for live, but maintain 4ohms.......actually, it does not matter that much!!
[/quote]

Don't get caught up in trying to get the full power of your amp. You wont gain anything from it (especially volume).

To use 2 4Ω cabs & maintain 4Ω, you would need a special cable made (which OBBM could do for you).

[aende]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1357640922' post='1925670']
Don't get caught up in trying to get the full power of your amp. You wont gain anything from it (especially volume).

To use 2 4Ω cabs & maintain 4Ω, you would need a special cable made (which OBBM could do for you).
[/quote]

Oooh! Who's OBBM?

So - get this right - 2 x 4 ohm parallel wired cabs - weird cable - 4 ohm at amp? not 2 ohm right?

[xgsjx]

[quote name='aende' timestamp='1357641140' post='1925674']
Oooh! Who's OBBM?

So - get this right - 2 x 4 ohm parallel wired cabs - weird cable - 4 ohm at amp? not 2 ohm right?
[/quote]

OBBM is a cable maker on here (user ID is OBBM). Here's his website... [url="http://bassic-bits.co.uk/"]http://bassic-bits.co.uk/[/url]

Getting full power to a single cab isn't going to make it noticably louder though.

[aende]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1357643733' post='1925728']
OBBM is a cable maker on here (user ID is OBBM). Here's his website... [url="http://bassic-bits.co.uk/"]http://bassic-bits.co.uk/[/url]

Getting full power to a single cab isn't going to make it noticably louder though.
[/quote]

Thanks dude - I contacted yer man. He has put me on the straight an narrow - what I am asking for defies the laws of physics.....I should not have just asked for perpetual motion...!

Perfect description from OBBM and what my options are

[xgsjx]

[quote name='aende' timestamp='1357644017' post='1925738']
Thanks dude - I contacted yer man. He has put me on the straight an narrow - what I am asking for defies the laws of physics.....I should not have just asked for perpetual motion...!

Perfect description from OBBM and what my options are
[/quote]

[aende]

So, it will be 2 x 210 4 ohm cabs. Just need to grab the shells and buy a set of 8ohm speakers/parallel wire.

Any recommendations? I was gonna go with these: http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=SKT902433&browsemode=category - cheap and they seem to have the same specs as the cabs were previously loaded with.

[xgsjx]

Does your amp run to 2 ohm? If not, I'd make 2 8 ohm cabs.

I couldn't advise whether those speakers are any good or not. I'd imagine they'd be worth £26, but I'd rather build a good 2x10 or 1x15 rather than 2 poor 2x10s.

Find out what the internal cab volume should be for the drivers that you're llooking at. Peavey used to use Eminence Black Widow drivers, but I couldn't say if that's what was in the empty cabs.

[aende]

In fact they seem to be better specced than the original, now missing, Peavey Sheffield speakers.......

Peavey Sheffield: http://www.stagebeat.com/Peavey-Sheffield-TVX-1035-Speaker-Driver-10-150w-4-Ohm-30777241-114108

Pro Music: http://cdn.avslgroup.com/downloads/thielesmall_902127.pdf - see line 902.433

[xgsjx]

See this information on the QTX driver:

[list]
[*]RMS Power: 200W
[*]Peak Power: 400W
[*]Chassis Diameter: 25cm (10")
[*]Frequency Response: 30Hz - 5Khz
[*]Magnet Weight: 1400g (50oz)
[*]SPL @1W/1m: 90dB
[/list]

Ignore it. It doesn't tell you what it does with the frequencies at 30hz & it doesn't tell you what the box volume should be.

I'd email Blue Aran & ask what they'd suggest for a replacement for the Peavey driver.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='aende' timestamp='1357646231' post='1925800']
So, it will be 2 x 210 4 ohm cabs. Just need to grab the shells and buy a set of 8ohm speakers/parallel wire.[/quote]Bad idea. You want 8 ohm cabs. That way there's no need for special cables, which always succumb to Murphy's Law just before a gig.
[quote]
I'd email Blue Aran & ask what they'd suggest for a replacement for the Peavey driver.[/quote]I wouldn't give them credit for having that level of expertise. Either use the Peaveys or have someone with the requisite skill pick a suitable replacement for you. That means not only modeling different choices with speaker modeling software but also comparing SPL charts, as T/S modeling only works up to about 300Hz.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[aende]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1357650200' post='1925923']
Bad idea. You want 8 ohm cabs. That way there's no need for special cables, which always succumb to Murphy's Law just before a gig.
I wouldn't give them credit for having that level of expertise. Either use the Peaveys or have someone with the requisite skill pick a suitable replacement do it for you. That means not only modeling different choices with speaker modeling software but also comparing SPL charts, as T/S modeling only works up to about 300Hz.
[/quote]

Special cables? The amp is designed around 4 ohm cabs!

The Theile values look very similiar - I think there is a 3 cu in difference between the drivers.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='aende' timestamp='1357650829' post='1925944']
Special cables? The amp is designed around 4 ohm cabs!
[/quote]Are you aware that when you run two 4 ohm cabs the load is 2 ohms ? The amp impedance rating applies to when you're using the maximum number of cabs that you ever intend to. If you intend to run two cabs they should be 8 ohm, so that the combined load is 4 ohms. It's true that you could series wire two four ohm cabs for an 8 ohm load, but that means the output of the amp will be less with two cabs than with one, which is the exact opposite of what you want.

[aende]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1357656178' post='1926085']
Are you aware that when you run two 4 ohm cabs the load is 2 ohms ? The amp impedance rating applies to when you're using the maximum number of cabs that you ever intend to. If you intend to run two cabs they should be 8 ohm, so that the combined load is 4 ohms. It's true that you could series wire two four ohm cabs for an 8 ohm load, but that means the output of the amp will be less with two cabs than with one, which is the exact opposite of what you want.
[/quote]

Ah - I see where you are now. Okay the amp has 2 x 250w outputs (it has dual power amps) @ 4 ohm each. So, I will run a cab from each output - 4 ohm each cab. I could daisy chain 2 x 8 ohm cabs, but using 1 cab for practice would lower my power to 150 watts at 8 ohms - I may as well keep it simple 'point 2 point' rather then daisy chain.

Looks something like this in my head:

250w @ 4ohm --------------4ohm 400w 210 cab
250w @ 4ohm --------------4ohm 400w 210 cab

what you are saying is:

250w @ 4ohm -------------- 8 ohm 400w cab ----------- 8 ohm 400w cab
250w @ 4ohm - xnot connectedx

I must admit that I like the idea of daisy chaining the cabs @ 8 ohm. Gives me scope to run a second 'set' of cabs/another cabinet.....However, I don't have the storage space for the full works and I think that 2 x 210's will suffice for quite a while and worst case I can always replace one of the 210's with a 410 to shift a bit more air.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='aende' timestamp='1357656959' post='1926103']
Ah - I see where you are now. Okay the amp has 2 x 250w outputs (it has dual power amps) @ 4 ohm each.
[/quote]In that case run a 4 ohm cab off each channel IF you never anticipate needing more than two cabs. If you do make the cabs 8 ohms, allowing you to use four cabs should you ever have the need.

[aende]

Yeah - I see wht you are sayin' I can easily add more 'ooomph' top the rig with a daisy chain. I think that 500w through 2 x 210 cabs would be enough for most gigs locally......any thoughts on this?

[Ghost_Bass]

You could get away using just one 210 on the majority of gigs you will be playing. 2 cabs will be more than enough for the tipic pub gig without PA support. I only use one 1x12" for pubs and never needed more, of course, having another cab available is always better

[aende]

Well, If I keep 2 x 210's @ 4ohm; I have full power from each power amp effectively, so I can pick and choose a bit. I could also just get hold of a 4 ohm 'big' cab, 410, 610 if I really needed the oomph for a bigger gig!

I think that storage space is really a key thing for me and weight.

[aende]

Thanks to MonkeyTrick! 2 Great condition Peavey TX cabs unloaded - Now all I have to do is load them!

Any ideas?

Anyone used polypropylene speakers / Car Kickers? Just a thought!

Easy transaction - Thanks again dude!

[Ghost_Bass]

Best thing for you is to pick up a measuring tape and tell us the internal dimensions of the cabs, port size and lenght and any other relevant information. I'm sure there will be somebody around here with some minutes to spare on WinISD that can point you to the best possible drivers for those cabs.

[xgsjx]

I wouldn't go for car speakers. 10" are usually subs & are low pass (so no mids or top).

[aende]

Above are the graphs for the old peavey 1035 speaker: Orange line

Speaker I have selected as a match: QTX pro music: Green line

QTX: [url="http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=SKT902433&browsemode=category"]http://www.bluearan....semode=category[/url] - Linke to Theile values 902.433: [url="http://cdn.avslgroup.com/downloads/thielesmall_902127.pdf"]http://cdn.avslgroup...mall_902127.pdf[/url]

Peavey 1035: [url="http://www.peavey.com/products/index.cfm/item/0/106537/Sheffield%26reg%3BTVX1035-4"]http://www.peavey.co...reg%3BTVX1035-4[/url]

I have a crossover installed at 3500hz + tunable Horn that I would like to keep - So, Eminence BP102 would not work as they cut off a 2000hz.....

Thoughts anyone? Edited January 16, 2013 by aende

[Phil Starr]

The problem with the driver you suggest is that it is very low sensitivity, only the same as a hi fi speaker so you'll need a lot of power to get the volume on stage. If you want to keep the costs down then these http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=FANSOV10-125&browsemode=category will be louder as a 2x10 than both of your cabs loaded with these cheap speakers. The Fanes do sound good as bass speakers too.

You'll spend about £100 on four of these cheapies, Spend £50 each on two better 10's and you'll end up with a better sounding and louder cab for the same price and you'll only have to carry one cab. If you love it and want even more volume then you can go for a second cab when you can afford it. For £50 you can get these. I use the 12" versions and they are fab sounding.
http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/SM-110%20NE.pdf there's also the eminence Deltas and for a little more the basslites to consider.

[aende]

Thanks Phil - I agree with you. I think I will run up one cab now and see how it goes.

My thoughts are more towards the Eminence Delta's mentioned - they seem to be a bit more punchy.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='aende' timestamp='1358355521' post='1937689']
Thanks Phil - I agree with you. I think I will run up one cab now and see how it goes.

My thoughts are more towards the Eminence Delta's mentioned - they seem to be a bit more punchy.
[/quote]

If you compare the Delta 10A with the Beyma you are going to hear quite a difference. The Delta's have a huge cone resonance which gives a big peak in frequency response centred on 2.7 kHz. and a roll off at 3.7. This upper mid peak is going to dominate the sound and may well come across as punchy. There's a huge magnet for a speaker this size and that gives good control of the cone.

On the minus side the cone is quite light (probably why it is peaking in the upper mids ) and the resonance is high for a bass speaker at 66Hz which is about bottom C so little fundamental for anything lower than C. The big magnet will roll off low frequencies too. Again this will give a lighter faster sound to the speaker. Having said that we don't really hear the fundamentals that well and really deep bass can result in a boomy sound in a lot of venues.

If you compare this with the Beyma the heavier cone damps the resonance better and the mid range peak is smaller (5dB v's 8) more importantly the bass resonance is lowered to 43Hz, more or less bottom E. This speaker is going to have a modern sound with good control of deep bass, which is actually going to be there. The SM110 also gives more treble output.

The biggest difference is in Xmax and Xlim, basically how far the cone can move before distorting and then damaging the speaker. Sadly they use differnt ways of expressing this with Beyma more conservative. I reckon the Beyma would measure about 6.5mm for Xmax compared to the Delta's 3.5mm meaning the Beyma will move twice as much before distorting. I haven't modelled these speakers but I think the Beyma will handle more power than the Eminences despite the thermal rating.

The Beyma also has the plus of a cast chassis.

There isn't a right choice here though, you just need to decide on what sound you want. The Delta has the sort of response you'd get from a guitar speaker at the top and less deep bass but could well give the sort of 'in your face' sound you want. the Beyma will be better behaved, if my 112's which have similar properties are anything to go by they are subtle and revealing. More Jazz bass than Ricky.

Oh be prepare to wait for the Beymas though, they're Spanish and will have to be ordered by Blue Aran.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Phil Starr

[aende]

Interesting - I looked at the eminence beta too. I spoke to blue aran and they recommended a p audio driver.....

This may be a suck it and see.....