thebrig Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I learnt a few chords on guitar at the age of ten, but never pursued it because I just did not think that I would ever be good enough to become a musician. But around five or six years ago in my [b][i]mid-fifties[/i][/b], I was the physio of a football club, and the players had put together a make-shift band to play at the end of season presentation night, and they needed a bass player, so I volunteered thinking that they would not be that good, and I wont look too out of place just playing root notes with a few little fills here and there. At the first rehearsal, I was shocked to find that they were all decent musicians, with quite a bit of gigging experience behind them, but I couldn't wriggle out of it as they had no one else they could call on. So for the few weeks leading up to the big night, I set about finding tabs and YouTube video's of the SIX songs we were to play. The crowd seemed to like what we played, and I must have been ok'ish, or at least shown some potential, because they decided to form a proper band, and asked if I would be interested in being the bass player. I have now gigged regularly since then with various bands, but I don't know any theory, I don't know any scales or stuff like that, I don't know what they are talking about when they speak in musical terms etc... and I've never had a lesson in my life, but I can learn a song pretty quickly just by listening to it, and working it out myself, or sometimes if it's a difficult bass line, I might look for a tutorial video to help me. I know how to play the original bass line to around 200 songs, although I do like putting my own take on things, but I still don't believe I can class myself as a musician, because I know nothing about music, other that I can remember where my fingers go. [u][i]So, my question is this:[/i][/u] Can I call myself a [b][i]musician[/i][/b], or do I just have a good [b][i]memory[/i][/b]? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 No. You're a bass player, but not a musician yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Music existed before the theory of it ever did. Make of that what you will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I would say that if you are able to entertain people using a musical instrument, then you can be classified as a musician. Doesn't necessarily mean that you are a good musician of course but none the less a musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 where's Inti? I reckon he'd be interested in this thread.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezzaboy Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) Always have faith in your own abilites. I know very little theory but like yourself can play lots of songs and that is good enough for me. When I was starting out and had very little confidence, a guitar player said to me " if you have no faith in your abilites, how do you expect anyone else to?" You are a musician and a Rock n Roll star! Edited January 4, 2013 by jezzaboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 [quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1357313211' post='1920819'] I would say that if you are able to entertain people using a musical instrument, then you can be classified as a musician. [/quote] I'm of the same mind. However, over the ages, some people crafted rules and regulations around music - and now, in terms of your abilty to play [i]and [/i]know/practice the intricacies of the corresponding theory and technique, the definition of 'musician' can now seem quite elitest. Personally, most people have some inherent musical ability; and if they can project it, and bend it to their will, then they're a musician After that, other definitions might apply - 'professional', 'skilled', 'exceptional', etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Homer never studied poetry or literature (he predates universities), but he had a phenomenal memory (he predates writing in Ancient Greece). Understanding theory and structure is valuable and can be entertaining, but ultimately you're on stage to perform, not to show off your erudition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) Anyone can memorise things. If you can play all the notes in these songs in a pleasing way (in time, in groove, with 'feeling', connecting with the others in the band, etc.), that's musicianship. Or something. Edited January 4, 2013 by Zenitram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 [quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1357312199' post='1920790'] Can I call myself a [b][i]musician[/i][/b], or do I just have a good [b][i]memory[/i][/b]? [/quote] Both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBass Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I like this thread, it's an interesting look at music and people. Personally I'd say everyone across the world has a musician inside of them, anyone can learn to play and learn the theory behind it, it's not like Rocket science although it can be just as boring sometimes! Studying music as a degree like I'm currently doing opens your mind to many different genres of music and different levels of musicians, for instance the guy down the pub who does a regular yet slightly below par set weekly right up to the most incredible Jazz musicians and the Professors of Theory who continually still argue over wether we have the best frequencies for pitch within modern music! Yet also my students who I teach are all beginners and can just about hold the bass yet I'd class them as musicians as they create and play music. We are all musicians and all have different levels of experience, different styles and different levels of theory. We all play and create music. Take what you want from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 [quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1357314108' post='1920855'] ... some people crafted rules and regulations around music ... [/quote] They're not rules and regulations. I think you need to understand what your function is within the music and use that to produce music before you can call yourself a musician. My milkman can whistle. Is he a musician? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 It's all semantics anyway. I'm a professional Spanish translator. I've lived in Spain for many, many years, been married to a Spaniard, owned a business there, worked as an interpreter, blah blah. Am I fluent in Spanish? Most people would say so. I'd say I'm not. Who's right? Does it matter? (No, it doesn't.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I know no theory, I might as well sell all my gear now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Thanks for the interesting replies so far. From what I've read, maybe [b][i]entertainer[/i][/b] is a better word to describe what I do, as I really get into what I'm doing, and I think I have pretty good timing and can feel the groove ok, and I think I know in my head what's required to make a song work. Still not sure if I'm a [i][b]musician[/b][/i] though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I had the same question in my mind a few years ago, having the same lack of knowledge, no lessons etc. I was playing with a brilliant pianist at the time, doing some original recordings and I was just winging it really, playing whatever came to mind. After the session, I couldn't believe it was me on the tape when we listened back - it sounded great. I said to the pianist - 'wow, can I call myself a musician now'? He replied - 'you play an instrument, so you are a musician and you always will be, never believe otherwise'. He left the studio and I never saw him again - he died on the way home. Since then, I have always called myself a musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 You (the OP) are certainly a type of musician. Not educated, not sophisticated, not massivley informed etc but none of that may matter in the context in which you are operating. Of course you are a musician, just not a particularly rounded one (and please don't take offence at that as none is intended). Some of the world's most successful performaers have been no more informed than you (and some of the least successful have been geniuses - go figure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyfish Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 If you play music, you are a musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I guess that is true but I think there is more to it than buying a pair of drumsticks and hitting things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 [quote name='Jellyfish' timestamp='1357316369' post='1920932'] If you play music, you are a musician. [/quote] If you can write your name does that make you an author? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1357314807' post='1920887'] I think you need to understand what your function is within the music and use that to produce music before you can call yourself a musician. [/quote] Which fits with the rest of my comment, though I think I was more flowery - and, if you can do that, you can be a musician. Without needing a Grade 8, or the nod from learned peers to necessarily validate yourself. I would still contest that 'music', in it's formal sense, has rules - that there is framework, structure. And that's none more evident than in the threads, ever the bane of a sensible conversation, where we discuss if people need to learn theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I suppose if other musicians call you and ask you to make music with them, that probably makes you a musician. Or it makes them desperate. Or deaf. Or mentally ill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gub Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 You can have all the theory behind you I the world but that doesn't make you any more entertaining than someone who has non of the theory but who can entertain and engage an audience , I know who I would rather go and see ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master blaster Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I see that playing musically makes you a musician, just playing without listening to what your really doing and how it interacts with others just makes you a player. Many people regard victor Wooten as one of the greatest bass players and yet he admits to knowing very little theory, but he really emphasises other important aspects like listening. Hes said " “Music is like a language. You don’t need to know the rules behind it to speak it. It always helps to know the rules behind it but it isn’t, by any means, necessary. Anyone can pick up an instrument and learn it because they don’t need to know the rules. They just feel it.” Also I'm sure jaco wasn't thinking music about theory when he played otherwise we wouldn't have pushed the boundaries as he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyvee Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1357317019' post='1920954'] If you can write your name does that make you an author? [/quote] No it makes you a copyist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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